5 replies to this topic

[jaychan1989]

Hi Guys,

I'm currently assigned to design a process to transfer the liquid Freon from ISO tank to 1 tan cylinder. Anyone have the rough idea what equipment do i need? Thanks

Edited by jaychan1989, 02 August 2012 - 07:56 PM.

[Art Montemayor]

Jaychan1989:

I’ve transferred Freons and other liquefied compressed gases in just about every imaginable way. However, I can’t offer you any “ideas” unless you come up with some hard, detailed, accurate, and specific Basic Data in order to recommend something. This is not the Student Forum, so you should know perfectly well what Basic Data is needed (including sketches of layout and vertical orientations (if required).

You are requesting free professional engineering advice and not even telling us what a “1 tan cylinder” is supposed to be. Give us all a break on the Forum and cough up some decent Basic Data.

Await your response.

[jaychan1989]

Hi Art Montemayor,

Forgive me for that. I gonna transfer the the Freon from the tank to a 1 ton Cylinder. Assuming the temperature is at 20 C. The pressure of the Freon will be 0.9Mpa which is very low. So from that I may need a Liquid pump to transfer the liquid into the cylinder. Beside that I will be connect the pipeline with a joint to vacuum pump in order to reduce the moisture and the impurities for the cylinder. After the pipeline and cylinder reach the vacuum state, there will be a valve to turn of the pipeline to vacuum pump. Is the pressure different is high enough for me to transfer 16 tons ISO tank to 16 cylinders? I will be upload a drawing tomorrow as my workplace Laptop do not have the program. Please enlighten me if any equipment is missed out..

Thanks Again

Edited by jaychan1989, 02 August 2012 - 09:06 PM.

[jaychan1989]

hi I have uploaded the drawing. Any professional mind to guide me? Thanks

Attached Files

•  Copy of P&ID Template.jpg   43.16KB   7 downloads

Edited by jaychan1989, 07 August 2012 - 02:02 AM.

[Art Montemayor]

Jaychan:

I requested “hard, detailed, accurate, and specific Basic Data in order to recommend something”. What you send is a simplified PFD. A PFD is OK, but it is so simple, that it limits the comments that can be given and only raises more questions. For example:

• What specific Freon are you pumping?
• What type, size, and model of transfer pump are you using?
• What are the Freon design transfer flow rate and the piping sizes?
• What type of flexible connection are you using?
• Do you propose to maintain the transfer pump flooded with Freon 100% of the time? What will you do if the pump fails and has to be inspected and repaired?
• Why do you pull a vacuum at the piping rather than at the cylinder valve itself?
• If the pump is a positive displacement type (which is what is recommended) how do you intend to protect the final discharge? Where are the relief valves? Where is the relief piping and where do you relieve to?
• Why do you show that your pump’s suction is not at the bottom of your storage vessel? You are losing valuable NPSHA.
• How are you going to install and connect all the piping, valves, and fittings on the transfer line(s)?
• Are all the 1-ton cylinders to be filled “totally” empty of Freon? I doubt it; but it could be. This is important because if you mandate that they contain Freon vapor pressure, this avoids having to pull a vacuum and ensures you don’t tolerate non-condensables in the system.

By not submitting a simple Excel spreadsheet drawing, you have made it impossible to mark up your sketch and to show you what we could recommend.

I hope the above helps to orient you to what is required procedure and operational techniques in transferring a valuable compressed liquefied gas.

[jaychan1989]

Hi Art Montemayor,

Thanks for highlighting me what I need to find out. I will work it out soon. Before this I'm a production line of transferring the liquified gaseous and liquid chemical to cylinder which it only depend on the pressure different to do the decant job. I just got my job change and I'm assigned to plan and do costing on it. forgiving me for being so insensitive with all this. Now with the question I know what to work on. Thanks for the guidance