16 replies to this topic

[sd_shreyas]

Hi Everyone,

 

I am looking for your help in getting me the details (be they are links, attachments, references, readily available material, etc.) on various steady state simulations software like Unisim, Aspen, Pro-II, Amine system software like Promax and Promax competitor software. I am working in Oil and Gas industry so it would be good if your inputs are more relevant to it.

 

I am looking for details mainly like general features, strengths, weaknesses, etc. for above software’s. I am expecting your response would focus on areas like:

• GUI
• Thermo packages and their selection options among various EOS, Activity co-efficient based models, predictive EOS, etc.
• Data banks
• Compatibility in terms handling various systems, phases, co-relation prediction, etc.
• Hits & Tips that give edge to these software’s to other softwares
• References

However, if you have more input to share apart from above items, you can do so. If you want to share the details as an attachments, pls send them on shreyas_sd@yahoo.co.in

 

Thank you.

Shreyas

[ankur2061]

Shreyas,

 

To give a detailed reply on a forum post would be quite difficult if not impossible. A search on the internet did not provide any article or paper comparing the various chemical process simulation software. Individually, plenty of information related to the various chemical process simulation software is available.

 

Ultimately the choice of the software depends on what is your end-use. In the general oil & gas sector and petrochemical industries, Aspen HYSYS is among the most popular, if you look at the usage pattern. Fast catching up in the general simulation software related to oil & gas sector is UNISIM from Honeywell. Aspen Plus thermodynamic library is considered to be quite extensive and hence considered quite useful in simulation of fine chemicals and pharmaceutical chemicals. Pro/II from Invensys is considered to be a great software for simulation of petroleum refinery processes and a majority of the engineering consultants involved in engineering solutions for refinery processes have a license for Pro/II. CHEMCAD is well known for its capabilities for simulation of distillation and heat transfer processes.

 

Besides the functionality of a software there are other factors that also play a role in their selection. Initial License cost, Annual maintenance, interactive or classroom training, software upgrades and debugging, and service support from the licensor also play a major role in their selection. If I don't get proper service support from the software supplier and licensor when I have issues such as software bugs, software crashes, inadequate training seminars, and resolution of technical queries, then I am going to think twice before buying that software. This much neglected aspect of purchasing a software where service support from the software supplier and licensor to the licensee needs to be carefully examined. It is imperative that you check what kind of service support you are going to get when you are going to spend thousands of dollars to buy the license for that software.

 

A few links for the individual software and software comparison are provided below:

 

http://ena.chemeng.n...heim_150609.pdf

 

http://www.ics.uci.e...m03/Keynote.pdf

 

http://www.linkedin....037.S.215354570

 

http://www.eng-tips.....cfm?qid=282769

 

http://www.aspentech...aspen-plus.aspx

 

http://iom.invensys....uite_proii.aspx

 

http://www.ics.uci.e...m03/Keynote.pdf

 

http://www.departmen...a_BlueHYSYS.pdf

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards,

Ankur.

Edited by ankur2061, 12 December 2013 - 12:43 AM.

[sd_shreyas]

Dear Ankur

 

Thanks for the prompt and helpful reply.

I agree with your views that finding a comparative note among various software is a bit difficult..

 

Could you share some more info about Promax and AMSIM softwares for Amine systems, if possible?

 

Thanks,

Shreyas

[PaoloPemi]

Shreyas,

as said by Ankur there are many software products in the market with different features and costs,

for a (somewhat incomplete) list see

 

'http://en.wikipedia....ess_simulators'

 

herebelow some comments on the points of your interest

 

GUI

(As far as I know) most products run under windows only (for example Promax, Hysys),

others can work in Linux (Unix), some products (process libraries) allow to create your

own apps working from web servers, if you plan to distribute your applications via

web (for example a company cloud etc. to share data) then you should evaluate aspects

as program interface etc. and libraries can be a interesting option.

 

Thermo Packages

make sure your system is modular, i.e. it allows to add new models when required,

and gives the possibility to specify different models for different properties (H,S,V...),

most products include their own EOS extensions

(examples are the extended Peng Robinson in Hysys,

or Extended Peng Robinson, Soave, CPA in Prode etc. etc.) which can

provide better features, altough with oil and gas you'll use

mainly std. or extended EOS the availability of models as CPA, SAFT etc.

can be a bonus.

Make sure the program includes a good VLE/LLE data regression procedure and

an extensive BIPs library, as alternative predictive models such as PSRK can solve

many problems (altough with somewhat less accuracy that a properly tuned EOS)

For amine systems there are specific packages (expensive)

but in most cases you can solve also with properly tuned models

(that depends from specific features, availability of electrolyte models etc.)

 

Data Banks

actually many software products include DIPPR or equivalent compilations,

these usually include HC up to C33 (and higher), make sure the data bank,

DIPPR has a complete list of thermophysical properties per each pure component,

some software allows to enter new data with different correlations and units

(in addition to DIPPR std.) and this may be useful if you plan to extend the data bank.

 

Characterization of Petroleum Fractions

you'll find the module in almost all products (Hysys, Promax, PRODE, Winsim etc.),

features are different and you may investigate about your real needs.

 

Unitary modules

almost all products allow to solve columns, reactors, pumps, compressors, draw a vapor-liquid phase envelope etc.

others include also some additional features as vapor-liquid-liquid phase envelope,

depressuring module (fire case and cold depressuring), multiphase pipeline etc.

note that most software solve units as heat exchangers from a thermodynamic point of view

not keeping in account real heat transfer coefficients while some add this possibilty

you may compare the features if you think there are specific needs

 

Compatibility in terms handling various systems, phases....

almost all products allow to solve vapor+liquid HC+water phase equilibria,

some (I know PRODE) has multiphase (vapor+liquid+ (limited) solid handling)

a (VERY) important aspect to consider in phase equilibria is the reliability

of convergence,

if you plan to work at high pressures in retrograde region make sure to select a

reliable software, a simple test which I recommend is to draw a phase

envelope calculating true critical point, then at regular intervals of

temperature and pressure from bubble and dew lines solve phase equilibria

(vapor liquid or vapor-liquid-liquid if water is present) and make sure the

values are correct, with best solutions you should be capable to get

reliable values near critical point as well as in three phase area where

presence of water may introduce large differences in values of fugacities.

 

Hits & Tips that give edge to these software's...

that really depends from your specific application,

for example, in my case, working mainly with Excel & MATLAB

I prefer a process library (PRODE PROPERTIES)

but others may prefer for example Hysys (or Promax) for some

specific feature.

 

References

there is certainly a large amount of Hysys users, but also other products

(Promax, Winsim, Chemcad, not speaking of process libraries as Prode)

have been tested in many oil& gas applications,

you may investigate with your clients for this

 

 

Paolo

[sd_shreyas]

Dear Members...

If you have further input, pls provide.

Thank you.

[RockDock]

There is a good deal of information on this topic. I can give you our company's experience and a link or two.

 

First, here is a link comparing ProMax and Hysys to experimental data concerning phase behavior at various temperatures, pressure and composition:

 

http://www.jmcampbel...phase-behavior/

 

Years ago, when we transitioned from Hysys to ProMax, we recreated the graphs in both simulators. Hysys was averaging about a 200% error as far as water phase behavior is concerned, just as the above article showed. ProMax, on the other hand, averaged less than 5% error. However, we expected that, as ProMax is widely know and routinely used for dehydration and hydrate suppression modeling.

 

Back when Hysys was owned by Hyprotech, we used Hysys for general processes and TSWEET (ProMax predecessor) for amine sweetening. We were very happy with that arrangement. After Hysys was sold to Aspen, we no longer received very good service and the prices skyrocketed. We were nickled and dimed for any modeling we did outside the simple processes. Hysys was no longer the top software expertise-wise, either. It became an after thought to Aspen, who made much more money with it's other software. Their developers and support staff left the company.

 

That was around the time when ProMax was first released. It was about 1/4 the price of Hysys and claimed to do almost everything Hysys did, plus being more accurate with amines, sulfur recovery, glycols, sour water stripping and dew point control. We were skeptical at first, but had a license of ProMax for sweetening and dehydration already, so we tried it for other processes, along side Hysys. Alas, ProMax predicted virtually the same results as Hysys for heat exchangers, equilibrium columns, pumps, compressors, vessels, valves, ect...

 

Then we got hit with another big price increase from Aspen. On top of that, our support calls were answered by IT professionals, rather than Chemical Engineers. We had enough of them. So, started doing rigorous testing of ProMax. Time after time, it matched the processes. Demethanizers, fractionation plants, oil stabilization, LNG, on and on, ProMax matched the results.

 

We approached Bryan Engineering for licensing ProMax and they offered to convert all our Hysys files to ProMax and provide training to all our engineers for free. On top of that, I was always in touch (and still am) with a Chemical Engineer who is always willing to help me, with anything I am working on for free. They just started offering new more advanced courses. I attended one last month for free and it was very high quality.

 

Service and support wise, ProMax is the best. They have helped me meet deadlines and win projects. Because of that, I am a lifelong supporter of theirs.

 

Technically, their attention to detail for amine sweetening, dehydration and sulfur recovery makes ProMax the best. For general processes, like NGLs, ProMax is no different than Hysys.

 

I have also seen a lot of clients using ProMax in the USA. In fact, I see ProMax in the USA more than Hysys now. Personally, I think Hysys will be replaced by ProMax in the next few years.

 

That was my personal story about ProMax and Hysys. Here are more specific answers to your questions:

 

I really only know Hysys and ProMax.

 

GUI:

 

ProMax uses Microsoft Visio, which interacts with excel seamlessly, allowing case studies to run automatically in excel (very powerful)

Hysys has it's own GUI. However, it's latest release seems to be trying to catch up with ProMax, because the GUI is very Viso-esque.

Overall, the GUI in ProMax is much more flexible. You have all the Visio functionality, like flowsheets, embedding PFD drawings and using a Block Flow Diagram to bring you directly to specific units in a large file.

 

Thermo Packages:

 

ProMax and Hysys have mostly similar packages, except for a few points. ProMax has an Amine Sweetening and Sulfur Recovery Package, that is far superior to Hysys. ProMax also has better water and BTEX solubility predictions. ProMax will give better hydrate predictions, too.

Hysys has the ability to create your own thermo packages. Why you would want that, I don't know. But it is there.

 

Data:

 

From what I understand, ProMax has a lot of Sour Gas and Acid Gas data. I mean A LOT. I think they also have a lot of MeOH, BTEX and Water data. Other than that, I don't know for either simulator.

 

Processes:

 

I only do Oil & Gas, so ProMax works very well for that. It does all the processes very well.

Hysys cannot model any sour process or wet process very well. Once you remove water, H2S and CO2, it works very well. Hysys cannot model Sulfur Recovery Units, either. However, Hysys may be able to do some processes outside of Oil & Gas, I don't know, never tried.

 

Tips:

 

Attend ProMax training. It is free and very very good. I've attended five training sessions, all free. Use their support. It is free, too! Their website, bre.com, also has a lot of good, free papers to read.

 

I may try to find some more links to post, but I am already very long-winded in my response...

[sd_shreyas]

RockDock,

 

Thank you for sharing your experience.

How do you get the free trainings for ProMax? I mean, is it an online or class-room training? What so they cover in it?

 

Regards and Happy New year.

[Ajay S. Satpute]

I've always had a very good experience dealing with AspenTech support team for my queries regarding hysys. These guys are very professional and provide the best solution at the earliest. I'm afraid RockDock, but I donot agree with you.

 

Regards.

 

Ajay

[RockDock]

This is the ProMax training schedule:

 

http://bre.com/Train...64/Default.aspx

 

As far as I understand, all of them are free, but you should just contact them. I've attended training for Fundamentals, Gas Processing, Advanced Simulations and, Advanced Sour Gas Processing. You learn just as much about the processes as you do the software. They are all classroom sessions.

 

Ajay,

 

That is fair enough. Different people have different experiences. Service is important.

[gegio1960]

sd_shreyas,

the answers from Ankur and RockDock are very informed and detailed.

But, in my humble opinion, they reflect two very different positions/views:

- Ankur approach is the one reasonably adopted in a big company, involved with several processes and several clients, and having various engineers working on the software;

- RockDock view is more typical of a little company or a consultant.

You should share some more details about your simulation activities and your working environment to obtain more useful information.

For instance:

- which processes do you need to simulate?

- how many people will use the s/w?

- do you need to exchange your simulated data with third parties?

- where are you based?

Good luck!

[mattb]

I agree with PaoloPemi,

when selecting a software you should consider several factors which are related to your specific activities,

in the past we have tested both Promax and Hysys

my company, active in Oil & Gas engineering has PRO II which for our business has better features than the products mentioned,

you should compare results in the specific areas of application against reliable data (we have a database with infield measurements), that is the best policy if you are going to design plants,

also you may consider the possibility to integrate different tools for specific areas of application.

[RockDock]

gegio is correct.

 

In my experience, the majority of small and midsize operating companies use ProMax, while the megasize operating companies use Hysys or equivalent for some processes plus ProMax for the more detail oriented modeling like amines, glycol, sulfur and sour water - At least here in the USA and in Europe, where we do the majority of our work.

 

The only time I have seen Pro/II to be preferred over Hysys or ProMax is in the refinery (their core business). Hysys and ProMax compete for Gas Plant modeling.

[marchem]

there are companies as Winsim, Prosim and Chemcad (to mention a few),

which claim to have more than 1000 users,

probably many are in the oil and gas industry.

[eldiosthor]

Hysys plant. Altamente recomendado para procesamiento de gas natural,endulzamiento del gas natural, deshidratación del gas natural y cualquier otro proceso envuelto en la industrial del gas en general. Excelentes simulaciones dinámicas, excelentes resultados en el cálculo de Flare, sistemas de alivio y venteo,  excelentes resultados en hidráulica tanto para líquidos, gases y flujo multifásico para tuberías y redes de tuberías en planta (pipe Sys) en algunos casos arroja buenos resultados para pipeline.

 

PRO/II. Excelentes resultados para procesamiento y tratamiento de petroleo y refinados. Para procesos del gas natural buenos resultados pero no tanto como los arrojados por hysys.

 

Aspen Plus. Como decimos acá en Venezuela, es el papa de los simuladores, excelentes resultados en todo muy por encima de Hysys y de Pro/II, Desventaja: Modulo dinámico muy absurdo y obsoleto.

 

 

Saludos

Edited by eldiosthor, 23 January 2014 - 08:44 AM.

[yantime]

This is an example:

 

"In the beginning, PROCESS took three months to evaluate the leading simulation softwares.  At the end of the process, we selected Chemstations' ChemCAD simulation software product.  To a large extent, we believe that the leading softwares are technically equivalent - but we wanted a partner in this endeavor, and it was our perception that Chemstations'­ customer and technical service personnel were superior to their competitions'.  Our engineers have trained extensively on the proper use and application of the software.  We have worked very closely with Chemstations over the past few years with the development of improvements to the software.  But most importantly, we consult with their expert simulation engineers on a frequent basis, both as a check on our work and for assistance in solving unusual or complex problems." - Process Engineering Associates, LL

 

Source: http://www.processen...simulation.html

 

[Pallavi Kumari]

I've always had a very good experience dealing with AspenTech support team for my queries regarding hysys. These guys are very professional and provide the best solution at the earliest. I'm afraid RockDock, but I donot agree with you.

 

Regards.

 

Ajay

Hi

How do you contact AspenTech support team? Through email or query on official site. In case email-Id, please share the id.

Thanks

Pallavi

[Ajay S. Satpute]

Pallavi,

 

Use below site.

http://support.aspentech.com

 

Register yourself and you could "submit an incident" to contact support guys.

 

Regards.

 

Ajay S. Satpute