18 replies to this topic

[farid.k]

Just to ask, what is the PROCESS parameter need to check in order to specify suitable deluge valve for fire water system? For me, it is enough to have flow rate for that particular deluge valve, operating and design pressure & temperature. Anything else to check? Actually we have problem at current deluge valve. Apple to apple replacement cannot be done since current model is already obsolete/out-dated. So I have to request different model and just afraid that new model cannot suit the current system. Appreciate team to advice. Thanks guys.

[fallah]

farid.k,

 

Appears you are asking about the deluge valve itself not deluge valve system. If so, you should check, at least following additional process parameters:

 

-Total differential pressure

-Shut off differential pressure

-Minimum opening pressure

-Opening time

-Body and trim materials

[breizh]

Farid ,

If this is an existing system  , you should find easily the data sheet of this piece of equipment (valve)  and revert to the vendor .

This kind of equipment are sensitive , meaning should be well documented .

 

Breizh

Edited by breizh, 20 August 2014 - 03:03 AM.

[farid.k]

farid.k,

 

Appears you are asking about the deluge valve itself not deluge valve system. If so, you should check, at least following additional process parameters:

 

-Total differential pressure

-Shut off differential pressure

-Minimum opening pressure

-Opening time

-Body and trim materials

Thanks fallah,

 

1. First of all, i would like to apologize since i never involve with deluge valve specification. This would be my first time, that’s why I don’t really know what to check.

 

 

2. Before I check the specification, I think I need to have clear picture of the terms below. Please correct me if I were wrong:

 

-Total differential pressure (is the pressure different between upstream and downstream of deluge valve)

-Shut off differential pressure (not sure. Appreciate to elaborate and how to specify)

-Minimum opening pressure (is the downstream pressure of the deluge valve when the deluge valve start trigger to open)

-Opening time (not sure. Appreciate to elaborate and how to specify)

-Body and trim materials (this I will let mechanical team to check and specify)

 

3. Do you have typical deluge valve datasheet?

 

thanks

[farid.k]

Farid ,

If this is an existing system  , you should find easily the data sheet of this piece of equipment (valve)  and revert to the vendor .

This kind of equipment are sensitive , meaning should be well documented .

 

Breizh

Breizh,

 

The deluge valve is 20 years old. No document available. The only info that I have is as per attached I don’t think that is the datasheet.

Attached Files

•  deluge valve.pdf   529.02KB   29 downloads

Edited by farid.k, 20 August 2014 - 03:22 AM.

[breizh]

https://www.grinnell...ge-fpliterature

 

Farid ,

This valve is ( was ) produced by Grinnell , under Tyco umbrella now. If you don't find the data sheet , you may be able to find the purchase order for this piece of equipment or contact TYCO/GRINNELL directly.

Good luck.

Breizh

Edited by breizh, 20 August 2014 - 05:10 AM.

[fallah]

farid.k,

 

Your understanding from total diff. pressure is correct.

Shut off differential pressure is the maximum differential pressure the valve can tolerate without any leakage.

Minimum opening pressure is the pressure below which the valve cannot be opened.

Opening time is the time duration of the valve from full closed to full open.

 

A typical data sheet of deluge valve has been attached.

Attached Files

•  Deluge Valve.docx   230.44KB   37 downloads

Edited by fallah, 20 August 2014 - 05:28 AM.

[farid.k]

farid.k,

 

Your understanding from total diff. pressure is correct.

Shut off differential pressure is the maximum differential pressure the valve can tolerate without any leakage.

Minimum opening pressure is the pressure below which the valve cannot be opened.

Opening time is the time duration of the valve from full closed to full open.

 

A typical data sheet of deluge valve has been attached.

Thanks fallah,

-How do i know the opening time? Is it vendor to advice?

-Just to confirm back, no need to specify maximum allowable pressure drop? Just afraid that when we don’t specify that, the expected pressure to the end user is not as expected.

 

https://www.grinnell...ge-fpliterature

 

Farid ,

This valve is ( was ) produced by Grinnell , under Tyco umbrella now. If you don't find the data sheet , you may be able to find the purchase order for this piece of equipment or contact TYCO/GRINNELL directly.

Good luck.

Breizh

 

Thanks breizh

[farid.k]

farid.k,

 

Your understanding from total diff. pressure is correct.

Shut off differential pressure is the maximum differential pressure the valve can tolerate without any leakage.

Minimum opening pressure is the pressure below which the valve cannot be opened.

Opening time is the time duration of the valve from full closed to full open.

 

A typical data sheet of deluge valve has been attached.

dear Fallah,

 

can you share with me on how&when the deluge valve start to open?

[fallah]

farid.k,

 

The deluge valve is activated by operation of a fire detection system installed in the same area of the sprinklers; while the detection system may be smoke, heat, ultraviolet (UV) or infra red (IR) type. Release mechanism of a deluge system can be manual, hydraulical, pneumatical, electrical or combination of these release mechanisms; but the deluge valve itself is to be activated hydraulically. When the detection device is activated, the deluge valve will be opened and water flows into the piping system toward subsequent spray nozzles.....

[RAM1975]

I have intrest to know more about ,pressure loss calculation from deluge valve up to the remote sprinkler operating on this deluge valve.

Could i recieve any guidance or excel file for calculationg the pressure loss.

 

I am sorry i do ot know i should continue with new question in same topic.

[farid.k]

farid.k,

 

The deluge valve is activated by operation of a fire detection system installed in the same area of the sprinklers; while the detection system may be smoke, heat, ultraviolet (UV) or infra red (IR) type. Release mechanism of a deluge system can be manual, hydraulical, pneumatical, electrical or combination of these release mechanisms; but the deluge valve itself is to be activated hydraulically. When the detection device is activated, the deluge valve will be opened and water flows into the piping system toward subsequent spray nozzles.....

Fallah, do we need to check the allowable pressure drop across the deluge valve? I think this would be vital parameter since from my reading, there would be minimum required pressure at the end of sprinkler. Appreciate your comment.

[fallah]

farid.k,

 

I think it's same as total differential pressure across the valve already included in the typical data sheet I did already upload. Do you think this way?

[farid.k]

farid.k,

 

I think it's same as total differential pressure across the valve already included in the typical data sheet I did already upload. Do you think this way?

I thought differential pressure is upstream - pressure drop of downstream valve (since we also don’t know the pressure drop across deluge valve). So i think it shall be pressure drop downstream of valve plus the pressure drop across valve isn’t? But how to estimate pressure drop across valve?

[fallah]

farid.k,

 

The pressure drop across the valve should be specified by the customer based on the system hydraulic and calculated water demand. Vendor has to consider that pressure drop in design of the valve for the application...

[farid.k]

farid.k,

 

I think it's same as total differential pressure across the valve already included in the typical data sheet I did already upload. Do you think this way?

Fallah,

 

just now have site verification regarding to deluge valve. 2 things play around

1- how to verified CV for deluge valve?

2- just to confirm back, the diff. pressure is upstream pressure- downstream pressure. what if the downstream pressure is no liquid?

[fallah]

farid.k,

 

1-Please clarify your query a bit more,

 

2-Differential pressure means the pressure difference when the valve is operating.

[farid.k]

farid.k,

 

1-Please clarify your query a bit more,

 

2-Differential pressure means the pressure difference when the valve is operating.

When I see typical deluge valve datasheet at my place, it has CV parameter to be filled. Pls refer snapshot.

Regarding differential pressure,

Differential pressure     = upstream pressure - downstream pressure

= upstream pressure - (upstream-[pressure drop downstream of the deluge valve+pressure loss across deluge valve (just estimate)+pressure drop across spray (estimate)]). am i right?

Attached Files

•  Capture.JPG   131.48KB   2 downloads

[fallah]

farid.k,

 

1-I think you can only estimate the CV and ask vendor to verify. The final CV should be submitted by vendor.

 

2-Differential pressure= The pressure at valve upstream-The pressure at valve downstream (differential pressure across the spray+the pressure loss in the pipe segment between the valve and the spray); when the valve is operating.