12 replies to this topic

[Entropy&Existentialism]

Hi everybody!

I'm new here, I joined up because I would like some advice from some professionals.

Almost 2 years ago now I graduated with a Bachelor of Chemical Engineering. I had cruised though the degree, I enjoyed the coursework, I didn't find it particularly taxing. I should have applied for jobs straight out of uni but instead I decided to go backpacking/travelling. I never had a gap year between school and uni so it was a valuable life experience but unfortunately I now have a huge hole in my CV. To add salt to the wound, my old referees are MIA. So no recent work history or referees. I don't feel confident applying for work with my current CV.


I'm thinking of going back to university to get my Masters in order to solve this problem. Going back to university would solve the problem of recent work history (since I could show that yes I have been productive and advancing my prospects) and I could use lecturers as referees. I think it's a good plan. But I haven't been in the workforce for a while and I definitely haven't had the experience of a full fledged industry professional. So to the Chemical Engineers reading this.... Is this a sound plan?


Should I go for my Masters? or should I go for something else like an MBA or maybe something project management related? Or should I just apply for work anyway? (If so where should I apply? Does **anyone** take graduates without referees?)


I don't really care where I end up, maxmizing my chances of getting a job is the bottom line. I live in Australia, but location doesn't bother me.

[PingPong]

It's good to hear that after 2 years your brain started working again.

 

Whether or not to go back to uni for a masters degree depends on your capabilities and perseverance. It may be difficult, after doing nothing for 2 years, to get back in the rithm again. Note also that if you start, but decide to give up early, you have an even bigger problem on your CV.

 

In your case I would first apply for work. What have you got to loose by trying? Write to a couple of oil companies and chemical engineering contractors. If it turns out that you have a problem with your CV or lack of referees you can still decide to go back to school.

 

I don't think your CV is a big problem if you apply at a chemical engineering contractor, as they usually are less snobistic than the culture in some oil companies.

 

I see that Fluor has several offices in Australia, but there may be other contractors too. You can also look around in Singapore.

http://www.fluor.com...nergy-chemicals

 

Depending on how the job interview is going, you could bring up your willingness to obtain a masters degrees by part-time working and part-time studying, if you feel that would increase your chances for a job.

 

Good Luck!

Edited by PingPong, 30 August 2014 - 11:46 AM.

[PingPong]

Apart from Fluor, other engineering contractors that have an office in Australia are:

 

Technip http://www.technip.c...ities/australia

Jacobs http://www.jacobs.co.../ourindustries/

AMEC http://www.amec.com/...tus/at_a_glance

 

All of those have offices around the world, so once you work in their Australia office, and you perform well, it is possible to transfer to another office in south east Asia, or Europe, or the US.

[breizh]

http://www.worleypar...es/default.aspx

 

Another one !

 

Breizh

[Entropy&Existentialism]

It's good to hear that after 2 years your brain started working again.

 

Oh it never stops working! I analyze *everything*. I do regret taking so much time off. If i just stuck with a year then I would have had my fun and still (probably) retained my referees.
 

 

Whether or not to go back to uni for a masters degree depends on your capabilities and perseverance. It may be difficult, after doing nothing for 2 years, to get back in the rithm again. Note also that if you start, but decide to give up early, you have an even bigger problem on your CV.

 

I'm stubborn. I'm good at long projects with delayed payback periods.

In your case I would first apply for work. What have you got to loose by trying? Write to a couple of oil companies and chemical engineering contractors. If it turns out that you have a problem with your CV or lack of referees you can still decide to go back to school.

 

I don't think your CV is a big problem if you apply at a chemical engineering contractor, as they usually are less snobistic than the culture in some oil companies.

 

I see that Fluor has several offices in Australia, but there may be other contractors too. You can also look around in Singapore.

http://www.fluor.com...nergy-chemicals

 

Depending on how the job interview is going, you could bring up your willingness to obtain a masters degrees by part-time working and part-time studying, if you feel that would increase your chances for a job.

 

I stand to lose confidence by trying and failing... This is kind of why i wanted to ask here first. I want to know if it's even worth applying for. My time and energy could be better spent.

I'll look into Flour anyway.
 

Apart from Fluor, other engineering contractors that have an office in Australia are:

 

Technip http://www.technip.c...ities/australia

Jacobs http://www.jacobs.co.../ourindustries/

AMEC http://www.amec.com/...tus/at_a_glance

 

All of those have offices around the world, so once you work in their Australia office, and you perform well, it is possible to transfer to another office in south east Asia, or Europe, or the US.

 

Thanks.

 

http://www.worleypar...es/default.aspx

 

Another one !

 

Breizh

 

 

And thank you.

I'll see if there's some low risk way to enquire/test the water.

What I would like to do is talk to somebody who actually does screening and interviewing, find out what my chances of success are and if they would be interested. What I don't want to do is mindlessly apply and fail.

[Entropy&Existentialism]

I should add...I have tried jobsearching before. The last time was when I was still studying. I needed work experience.

I applied to big miners through the "proper channels", I spent hours jumping through hoops with various online applications (where they ask you hundreds of questions) and then got no response. In the end I got my vacation work because I knew somebody, who knew somebody. It's so depressing applying through a cold faceless system and being ignored and not knowing what I did wrong and therefore having no way to correct or improve.

[PingPong]

I don't really understand why in the past you applied to miners when you have a chemical engineering degree.

Moreover jobs for only vacation work are not the same as real jobs.

 

Did you stay in touch with other students from your college? How did they end up? Where are they working?

 

Make a LinkedIn account.

 

Make a Facebook account on which you decribe the backpacking route you followed the past two years, the countries you visited, your experiences, et cetera, with lots of photos. (This is to make sure companies believe you really were on route for two years, and not spent that time in a clinic kicking some addiction, or in jail).

Edited by PingPong, 01 September 2014 - 03:18 AM.

[Entropy&Existentialism]

Mining comprises a large portion of Australia's economy, as to it's relevance to chem eng, everything that gets dug up has to undergo mineral processing. And that's where all of my old cohort ended up...

Re: facebook and linked in, those are great ideas. But I didn't bring a camera (or phone or laptop). I was a luddite, free of worldly distraction. It was good though, it allowed me to soak up the culture and become immersed in it. As opposed to doing what one of my friends did, which was spend all her time on the internet (which is such a waste when you can just do that at home). I knew I was susceptible it so I very deliberately left my phone and laptop in storage.

I find the thought of me with a drug addiction or a conviction comical. I'm waaaaaay too much of a nerd for that.


 

[Entropy&Existentialism]

Linked in is a good idea though (although I know nothing about it).

Studying still seems like the most attractive option to me. MBA or Project Management?

[PingPong]

I find the thought of me with a drug addiction or a conviction comical.

It does not matter what you or I think. What matters is what the job interviewer thinks when you tell him you were on a world tour for two years but have absolutely no proof of that.

 

 

 

I'm waaaaaay too much of a nerd for that.

You did not sound like a nerd when you said:

I was a luddite, free of worldly distraction. It was good though, it allowed me to soak up the culture and become immersed in it.

 

 

Another contradiction:

I'm stubborn. I'm good at long projects with delayed payback periods.

versus:

I stand to lose confidence by trying and failing... This is kind of why i wanted to ask here first. I want to know if it's even worth applying for. My time and energy could be better spent.

and:

What I don't want to do is mindlessly apply and fail.

 

 

You sound like somebody who did not know what he wanted after graduation, avoided taking a decision for two years by fleeing into the wilderness, but still does not know what he wants, and moreover is afraid of failure.

If the above was a job interview you would indeed have failed.

Avoid contradictions, as well as vague alfa/gamma speak, in a job interview.

 

 

Note also that one does not become a project manager when one starts working. That requires many years of work experience before that. One can in some companies start as a project engineer, but starting as a process engineer usually gives you also the possibility to move up to project manager.

[Entropy&Existentialism]

It does not matter what you or I think. What matters is what the job interviewer thinks when you tell him you were on a world tour for two years but have absolutely no proof of that.

 

I realize that.
 

You did not sound like a nerd when you said

 

...

I spent most of my life on computers (or books). When I was growing up it was DOS, then Windows 95, 98, XP. I played a lot of games. Then when I started my degree, nothing changed except I was using computers for work as well as play. Autocad, EES, Hysys, Matlab, excel (it's ironic how such a primitive ms office program can be so useful, particularly with iterative equations). It's been non stop. Until of course I went on my little holiday. The danger of spending all my time overseas playing addictive computer games (or just squandering it all on the internet) was a real problem, so I eliminated the possibility.
 

Another contradiction...

 

Studying is easy. You apply, you do the work, you get the degree.

Finding a job is... and undefined problem. Too many uncontrolled variables. Not enough equations. And it's not even an engineering problem, it's a psychological problem. It boils down to "what behaviours do I express which will result in the other party expressing the behaviour I wish (giving me the job)?" I don't know what's going through their heads. I have absolutely no control over the situation. Add to the fact that I don't have much (if anything) to work with regarding my CV and my unwillingness to try seems vindicated. And finally it's my (potential) career on the line. I don't want them to have an inferior CV on file with which they will judge my future applications as unworthy. It stresses me out.
 

You sound like somebody who did not know what he wanted after graduation, avoided taking a decision for two years by fleeing into the wilderness, but still does not know what he wants, and moreover is afraid of failure.

 

I'm a girl. Just FYI.

I know what I want. I am prone to escapism. That's true. And I hate failing. I'm not used to it.
I did want to see the world though. And I did want a break, a new adventure etc. Just as now I miss differential mass and energy balances.
 

If the above was a job interview you would indeed have failed.

 

I didn't realize it was one.
 

Avoid contradictions, as well as vague alfa/gamma speak, in a job interview.

 

What do you mean by alpha and gamma speak?

I'll keep the vagueness in mind. I didn't want to give my life story here so that's why I've been taciturn.
 

Note also that one does not become a project manager when one starts working. That requires many years of work experience before that. One can in some companies start as a project engineer, but starting as a process engineer usually gives you also the possibility to move up to project manager.

 

So it would help if I wanted to apply for "project engineer" positions? is that right? Would it help at all with chem/proces engineer positions? (Like would a potential employer think it useful to have a chem eng with a degree in that sort of thing?)

Would this be marginally beneficial over an MBA (which, correct me if I'm wrong, would help me with chem eng related managerial positions, like for example, plant manager?) If I'm completely wrong, please let me know. The worst thing I want to do is waste my time and money with a 2 year course that doesn't help my prospects.

[PingPong]

With "vague alfa/gamma speak" I mean: don't talk about existentialism, and be carefull with saying things like

I was a luddite, free of worldly distraction. It was good though, it allowed me to soak up the culture and become immersed in it.

Sound like an engineer, not like a philosopher or anthropologist.

You could however mention that your contacts with people from different cultures will help you in the management role (project manager, plant manager, ....) that you see for yourself in the future.

If you worked with DOS before Windows 95 I am starting to wonder how old you already are.....

Do not apply for a project engineer job only, apply for "project engineer or chemical engineer" in your letters.

I don't think that an MBA is of much use to become a Plant Manager. I think an MBA is only of use if you intend to become a business development manager (sales engineer) or CEO or CFO or other jobs where financial decissions are involved.

If you have a bachelor degree in chemical engineering with good grades you should not have a problem getting a job with an engineering contractor like the ones mentioned above, provided they have work and need people. There are many more if you look outside Australia. I still think that is the best way for you to go. Once you have worked a couple of years it is much easier to get another job if you decide to switch companies.

You can also decide to sign in at recruitment agencies so that companies that need chemical engineers for a limited period of time can hire you via that agency. Again: once you have some work experience it is much easier to get a real job.

 

Companies often have information days at universities to interest students. Contact your old uni whether such information days are held there in the near future.

 

I don't think there is anything more to be added to my messages of the past days, so I will leave it to this.

Maybe others can add some more advice.

[Entropy&Existentialism]

I'm in my early 20's. I went straight to uni out of high school. I was playing DOS games when I was 5 years old.

Thanks for your help. Every suggestion helps. Every scrap of information is a resource I can use to solve this problem.