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Hysys Thermodynamic Package In An Entire Plant


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#1 dungnt

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 11:09 AM

Dear All

 

I'm learning hysys via tutorial lessons and just following step by step guide and I have a question that in "real world" how do design engineers work with hysys ? Do they build the simulation yourself with some pre-calculated parameters by hand ? and a final question is I used a thermodynamic package in some areas in a plant (Amine package for Gas Sweeting, Peng-Robinson for LPG recovery etc.) but in an entire plant do I have to separated plant into areas to use different package or have other ways to do it ?

 

Thank you so much for your time and your attention !  



#2 Bobby Strain

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 02:03 PM

You can use sub-flowsheets where you need a different property package.

 

Bobby



#3 dungnt

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 04:25 AM

Thank you Bobby  :D



#4 PingPong

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 06:53 AM

In the real world it is quite common to use multiple packages for different unit operations in one plant. How that is handled depends on the specific simulation software one uses.

 

Licensors will usually enter their own parameters and coefficients for the preferred thermo package, to get more accurate results than the standard data in the simulator software would yield.



#5 dungnt

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 09:29 AM

Thank you PingPong, very useful information.

I never know that. I just thought that designers do simulations with the standard thermodynamic packages !



#6 ahmadikh

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 02:40 AM

dungnt,

 

I believe HYSYS gives you the ability to use the appropriate property package (determined by you) even for each stream/equipment and/or package. In the first tab you can determine the property package which you have already defined in your basis.

 

Best,

Milad



#7 RockDock

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 11:11 AM

In reality, it is not very common to use Hysys for the entire plant. Hysys gives very good results for hydrocarbon separation, but is not commonly used for troubleshooting or design of operations with water, H2S, CO2 or mercaptans.

 

I would only use Hysys for the following parts of the plant:

 

Hydrocarbon Pipelines (with no water or sour components)

NGL Recovery

NGL Fractionation

Crude Oil Distillation

 

I especially would not trust Hysys results for these processes (thus would not recommend any of their property packages):

 

Amine Sweetening

Glycol Dehydration

Sour Water Stripping

Merox or other types of Caustic Treating

Hydrate Supression



#8 dungnt

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 02:40 AM

Thank you RockDock and ahmadikh !

 

Could I ask you guys something ? My tutor asked me questions that "What different between Hysys and Pro/II ?" and "Why often do design engineers use Hysys, while in a refinery Pro/II is more commonly used ?" I answered that in some processes like sour gas treating by amine Pro/II give the results better than Hysys, but It seemed to my tutor do not agree with my answer. I seek on google but found no satisfied answers.

Please could some of you explain it ? Thank in advanced 



#9 ahmadikh

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 04:21 PM

 dungnt,

 

HYSYS is mostly used for hydrocarbon processing i.e. once you are trying to simulate packages/units with crude oil (or its cuts) as the feed. HYSYS is very good in this but maybe it is not the best for simulating chemical reactions, especially if there are tons of complicated reactions of various types of hydrocarbons. PRO/II is older than HYSYS and more expensive I believe! The reason that it may be used in more plants could be its popularity before HYSYS being released (but that is only my guess which might be wrong).

 

There are many other differences between this two software packages. If you want to get some idea, you can search "Mass transfer rate based" term and you will find that HYSYS is not simulating a separation equipment e.g. towers on a mass transfer based rate, but I believe other software like ProMax does. It means that the simulation in "Mass transfer rate based" is not based on equilibrium stages and tray efficiency but is based on the mass transfer rate on each tray which gives you the option to specify how far the separation is from ideality for each two of the components...

 

On top of the information above, the numerical solution in each software is unique and I have found HYSYS faster in this aspect so far...

 

Hope this helps...

 

Best,

Milad


Edited by ahmadikh, 24 November 2014 - 04:52 PM.


#10 dungnt

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 08:30 AM

Thanks ahmadikh for really useful information !



#11 RockDock

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 05:50 PM

The main difference between Pro/II and Hysys is Oil vs. Gas. I would say that Pro/II was created initially to solve problems in the refinery, while Hysys did the same for the gas plant. As the different software moved into the other's market, they also brought their own methods of simulation. Hysys is generally easier to use than Pro/II, but will not give as accurate of results in for refinery operations (although, I think it is pretty close).

 

I think you were getting Pro/II and ProMax confused when you were talking to your tutor. ProMax is the simulator most highly regarded for sour gas treating. I would not expect Pro/II or Hysys to be accurate at all for sour systems. ProMax is actually my favorite simulator. I believe it is the easiest to use and the most versatile simulator on the market. It can model the entire gas plant and most of the refinery very well. Best of all, ProMax gives you free support from the top researchers and experts in the industry.



#12 dungnt

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 07:50 AM

Thanks RockDock so much!

Hope you have a nice weekend :D



#13 Mach21

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 12:50 PM

@

ahmadikh

hysys is far more expensive than Pro II.

correct me if i am wrong.



#14 ahmadikh

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Posted 09 December 2014 - 04:08 PM

 Mach21,

 

As far as I know, PRo/II used to be more expensive way back (I might be wrong because I was never involved with the purchasing any of them directly and that is what I have heard from my old co-workers). But most probably HYSYS is now more expensive since it has lot many features and tools. Also, it may depend on what exactly is included in the package being purchased.

 

Correct me if I am wrong...

 

Best,

Milad



#15 RockDock

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Posted 10 December 2014 - 11:02 AM

Hysys got a lot more expensive after Aspen purchased it.



#16 StealthProg

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 07:22 PM

Hysys can also use aspenplus thermodynamics packages which are extremely flexible and at least a good as anything else on the market. The main difference for specialised simulators (e.g. for acid gas treating) is simply the time and effort required to fit experimental data and get usefull interaction parameters and so on which tune the package to a particular set of operating conditions.

So an acid gas plant package for example may be just NRTL or some other thermodynamic method for example but tuned up with lab data to match acid gas processes. (ie have the correct tuning factors worked out to make it work accurately).




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