7 replies to this topic

[stewartrae]

Hi all
I have been searching for some time and trying to find some guidance on how to do venting calculations on a storage tank.
We have a 500m3 (9 metre diameter) tank which has 2 off 6" free vents (vent to atmosphere)
product is kerosene
a pump which loads products at 2000 ltrs/min
and a pump which unloads at 2000 ltrs/min, we wish to add an additional unloading pump which will give us a total of 4000 ltrs/min product movement out of the vessel

how do I check the tank can cope with this product movement without creating a vacuum

what information do I need, to perform a calculation which could verify the in-breathing requirement

sorry if this all seems a bit vague, I will try and answer any queries

heres hoping

Stewartrae

[proinwv]

First I suggest that you read API 2000. After doing so you will see that you can calculate your breathing, and emergency venting requirements. Then you need to size the vents to be able to flow the required volume at pressure drops that will keep your tank within its working pressure and vacuum limits.

If you continue to use open vents, as opposed to tank vents, then you will have to calculate the vent capacity, using a publication such as TP 410.

Both papers are available online at modest costs.

[stewartrae]

I now have a copy of the publications you have suggested
Thank you for that they are most helpful

I have from API 200 managed to calculate the requirement for in and out breathing for liquid movement and thermal.

I am finding TP 410 rather confusing though, I wonder if someone could please clarify which is the correct calculation I'm to use for this, at the moment I think it should be equation 2-24, but as stated I am confused by it and not 100% sure its the right one to use.

Maybe I'm just looking for a simplistic solution, what I want to know really is the pressure differential between the tank interior and atmosphere during the pumping operation.
As you have probably guessed I'm a bit new to all this
Thanks

[proinwv]

I am glad that you took the initiative to obtain and read the documents. Most of us have found them very useful additions to our libraries.

I am on the road currently and without a copy of the Crane paper to comment on your question, and I am sure you can appreciate that I haven't memorized the equations.

Hopefully, some of the others who regularly contribute to this forum will jump in and answer your question. We have several very knowledgeable ones who can help you.

Otherwise I will get back on the forum at the end of the week.

Best

[djack77494]

what I want to know really is the pressure differential between the tank interior and atmosphere during the pumping operation.

In general, to solve a hydraulics problem you must deal with a fluid flowrate, a pressure differential, and a resistance (which is what I'll refer to as the system configuration). Courtesy of API2000, you now have a flowrate. You must now obtain the pressure differential, which in your case would represent something akin to the design pressure of the tank. I hope you are either specifying a new tank (in which case you can specify the design pressure) or you have information about your existing tank's pressure holding capabilities. With this information, you can complete your venting calculations using Crane TP410. Being quite lazy, I would calculate an equivalent length of my vent piping, then divide it into my pressure differential, expressing the result in psi/100ft (or convenient SI units if that's your preference). Then I'd go to Crane page B-15 and pick off the pipe size that results in the just calculated hydraulic loss (or lower). If I understand your problem correctly, you'd be done at this point.
Doug

You run into problems looking at Crane's Equation 2-24. That equation is for compressible gas flow through a nozzle or orifice, and requires that you can determine the flow coefficient "C".

[proinwv]

Let me add one comment to djack. Be conservative. Piping calculations are just that, so lacking test information, especially into loss coefficients, be on the safe side. Pipe is cheaper than tanks, and life.

[stewartrae]

Hi
Thanks very much for pointing me in the right direction I was most definitely finding this all quite complicated.
It still seems to me that there is precious little clear information available on the venting capability and requirement,
I now know it is possible to work out thanks to you guys, surely this must be an every day situation,

I read a part of BS 599 (Part 5. Specification for oil storage tanks) (attached) which states

The bore of the vent pipe shall, for tanks over 250 L capacity, be not less than 50 mm nominal diameter and at least equal to the bore of the filling pipe.

Whilst this statement to me offers a logical quantitative approach it by no means clarifies the situation or the requirements and in fact confuses where I think I need to be,
and just cap it all if I thought this was difficult trying to find thermal relief information (other than just use a 3/4" line ) is proving a bigger headache x2 than ever

but thank you for your guidance most appreciated

Stewartrae

Attached Files

•  bs799vent.pdf   198.59KB   1568 downloads

[proinwv]

Hi again,

I have seen that same statement in a US spec, I just can't remember which one.

To me that is a "rule of thumb", a good starting point but I still feel that you should do the best analytical evaluation possible in order to have confidence that you have done a proper job. And yes API 2000 is not the best solution, and is most likely very conservative.

It seems that you are on your way to understanding and solving your problem. Best wishes and come back if you have more questions.