9 replies to this topic

[TechExpert]

Dear members

I want to discuss about providing fire proofing.

I am aware that fire proofing is done for structures, supports, gratings etc. but have a doubt if the same is done for equipments? I have an approximate idea that it is done for equipments handling lighter hydrocarbons and done up to a height of 25 ft.
At some cases I have seen that fire proofing specified in the data sheets of Steam Condensate Pots.

To be precise, I have the following queries:-

1. Under what conditions fire proofing is specified in the equipment datasheets?
2. Under whose scope it is; Process engineer/Static equipment deptt./ or Civil/Structures?
3. Is it specified for hydrocarbon equipments only or for any equipment?

[demank]

Dear members

I want to discuss about providing fire proofing.

I am aware that fire proofing is done for structures, supports, gratings etc. but have a doubt if the same is done for equipments? I have an approximate idea that it is done for equipments handling lighter hydrocarbons and done up to a height of 25 ft.
At some cases I have seen that fire proofing specified in the data sheets of Steam Condensate Pots.

To be precise, I have the following queries:-

1. Under what conditions fire proofing is specified in the equipment datasheets?
2. Under whose scope it is; Process engineer/Static equipment deptt./ or Civil/Structures?
3. Is it specified for hydrocarbon equipments only or for any equipment?

Hallo,
I want to joining the discussion,
1. fire proof is required when there is a radiation heat level on the equipment (in the abnormal condirion), is above the criteria, such as above 5 kW/m2 depend on its regulation.
2. Under whose scope? Under HSE Engineer with the help of process engineer.
3 Yes, for hydrocarbon (flammable) equipment only. Water Tank no need for fireproof material..

[TechExpert]

Dear members

I want to discuss about providing fire proofing.

I am aware that fire proofing is done for structures, supports, gratings etc. but have a doubt if the same is done for equipments? I have an approximate idea that it is done for equipments handling lighter hydrocarbons and done up to a height of 25 ft.
At some cases I have seen that fire proofing specified in the data sheets of Steam Condensate Pots.

To be precise, I have the following queries:-

1. Under what conditions fire proofing is specified in the equipment datasheets?
2. Under whose scope it is; Process engineer/Static equipment deptt./ or Civil/Structures?
3. Is it specified for hydrocarbon equipments only or for any equipment?

Hallo,
I want to joining the discussion,
1. fire proof is required when there is a radiation heat level on the equipment (in the abnormal condirion), is above the criteria, such as above 5 kW/m2 depend on its regulation.
2. Under whose scope? Under HSE Engineer with the help of process engineer.
3 Yes, for hydrocarbon (flammable) equipment only. Water Tank no need for fireproof material..

Thanks Demank

I have some idea that fire proofing is done only on equipment supports and supporting structure, not on the equipment body.
Regarding scope, HSE Engineer only interferes during construction or in running plants, not during design stage. My question is for design stage...
Can anyone refer some literature on the topic...

PKS

[demank]

Yes, I agree, for equipment structure (support).
But for critical equipment such as SDV/ESDV, I think it is necesserary to protect it from fire.
This is interesting to me.
I still searching the reference book for this topic also,

[TechExpert]

Yes, I agree, for equipment structure (support).
But for critical equipment such as SDV/ESDV, I think it is necesserary to protect it from fire.
This is interesting to me.
I still searching the reference book for this topic also,

Thanks for your quick reply Mr. Demank

can you please write the full form of SDV/ESDV...

Puneet

[SafetyUser]

Yes, I agree, for equipment structure (support).
But for critical equipment such as SDV/ESDV, I think it is necesserary to protect it from fire.
This is interesting to me.
I still searching the reference book for this topic also,

can you please write the full form of SDV/ESDV...

Dear PKS I would like to add my 2 cents on the matter
SDV/ESDV both stand for (Emergency) Shut Down Valve

What about protect against fire? Well, the use of Passive Fire Protection (PFP) is one the means generally addressed as "inherent safe design" and you will hardly find mandatory rules which states IF, WHAT and HOW to protect items with PFP.
You may encounter offshore separators with fireproofing on the whole vessel or even gas plants where not even the structures are protected: it mainly depends on the hazard and on the results from the fire risk analysis and the possibility the fire to escalate to adjacent units (design HSE or process dept. are usually involved in this activity).

Critical items for emergency purposes such as SDV/ESDV/Blowdown valves may require fireproofing to enhance their survivability in case of fire involvement and where other safe means may not be effective (such as separation from fire area, reduction of flammable inventory) but again this is a design option when the risk is deemed reasonably high.

Flame impingement or radiation levels above 37.5kW/m2 for an endurance time above 20/30 minutes may result in complete loss of integrity of large vessels during the depressurization and this may require PFP on the whole item.

Some useful publications in these:
"Avoidance and Mitigation of Fire & Explosions", UKOOA
API 2030 "Fireproofing practices in the petroleum and petrochemical processing plant"
"Guidelines for the protection of pressurized systems exposed to fire", Scandpower

hope this helps

[chemsac2]

PKS,

Fireproofing may also have to be provided for cases where relief temperature due to fire case is above MOC creep temperature limit or where calculations indicate that vessel may rupture within 30 minutes - 1 hour due to fire heat input and blowdown is not practical.

Typical case can be fuel gas KOD, where ratio of operating pressure to design pressure is say 3. Even if vessel is at ambient temperature relieving temperature would exceed 600 deg C. Fireproofing may be an option for such a case.

Section 5.2 in API 2218 lists few additional scenarios which may need fireproofing.

Regards,

Sachin

[TechExpert]

PKS,

Fireproofing may also have to be provided for cases where relief temperature due to fire case is above MOC creep temperature limit or where calculations indicate that vessel may rupture within 30 minutes - 1 hour due to fire heat input and blowdown is not practical.

Typical case can be fuel gas KOD, where ratio of operating pressure to design pressure is say 3. Even if vessel is at ambient temperature relieving temperature would exceed 600 deg C. Fireproofing may be an option for such a case.

Section 5.2 in API 2218 lists few additional scenarios which may need fireproofing.

Regards,

Sachin

Thank you very much SafetyUser/Sachin

The information provided by you is really fruitful.
In a Gas processing unit, I have got a steam condensate pot datasheet with fireproofing required. Do we provide fireproofing for the same? As we provide the FP (fireproofing) for equipments containing hydrocarbons. As SafetyUser mentioned the requirement of fireproofing of full vessel in Offshore systems, is it the same case for onshore projects? Has anyone experienced FP of full vessel in onshore projects whether petrochemical, refinery or Gas processing facility??

Last but not the least, please tell me, whose role exactly it is to specify fireproofing. When do HSE comes into role? Can you please send me the soft copy of API 2218, or if not able to upload full file, please upload the required information on this portal or my email is createrme@gmail.com.

PKS

[SafetyUser]

Thank you very much SafetyUser/Sachin

The information provided by you is really fruitful.
In a Gas processing unit, I have got a steam condensate pot datasheet with fireproofing required. Do we provide fireproofing for the same? As we provide the FP (fireproofing) for equipments containing hydrocarbons. As SafetyUser mentioned the requirement of fireproofing of full vessel in Offshore systems, is it the same case for onshore projects? Has anyone experienced FP of full vessel in onshore projects whether petrochemical, refinery or Gas processing facility??

Last but not the least, please tell me, whose role exactly it is to specify fireproofing. When do HSE comes into role? Can you please send me the soft copy of API 2218, or if not able to upload full file, please upload the required information on this portal or my email is createrme@gmail.com.

PKS

Dear PKS, you give too less information for a coarse fire risk analysis
- how much flammable is involved between the isolation valves across the pot?
- is there a depressurization facility? how long it will take? what is the starting pressure?
- what is the thickness/diameter ratio and material grade of the pot? (this for estimating the rupture limit when exposed to fire)
- do you intend to protect against jet fires or pool fires?
- is there a containment or curb around the pot which may segregate the fire spread?

Anyway, my suspect is that your datasheet refers to requirement of fireproofing on pot legs/saddle only. This would be reasonable and the most practical.

Onshore plants may frequently encounter fireproofing on LARGE vessels with lpg/lng or where no other means to prevent fire escalation exist.

But remember: active and passive fireprotection should be regarded as the last barrier against fire escalation, after considering other most effective and practical means.

PS_sorry for I gave the right title but the wrong number for the API standard. Sachin referred to the correct 2218.

[TechExpert]

Thank you very much SafetyUser/Sachin

The information provided by you is really fruitful.
In a Gas processing unit, I have got a steam condensate pot datasheet with fireproofing required. Do we provide fireproofing for the same? As we provide the FP (fireproofing) for equipments containing hydrocarbons. As SafetyUser mentioned the requirement of fireproofing of full vessel in Offshore systems, is it the same case for onshore projects? Has anyone experienced FP of full vessel in onshore projects whether petrochemical, refinery or Gas processing facility??

Last but not the least, please tell me, whose role exactly it is to specify fireproofing. When do HSE comes into role? Can you please send me the soft copy of API 2218, or if not able to upload full file, please upload the required information on this portal or my email is createrme@gmail.com.

PKS

Dear PKS, you give too less information for a coarse fire risk analysis
- how much flammable is involved between the isolation valves across the pot?
- is there a depressurization facility? how long it will take? what is the starting pressure?
- what is the thickness/diameter ratio and material grade of the pot? (this for estimating the rupture limit when exposed to fire)
- do you intend to protect against jet fires or pool fires?
- is there a containment or curb around the pot which may segregate the fire spread?

Anyway, my suspect is that your datasheet refers to requirement of fireproofing on pot legs/saddle only. This would be reasonable and the most practical.

Onshore plants may frequently encounter fireproofing on LARGE vessels with lpg/lng or where no other means to prevent fire escalation exist.

But remember: active and passive fireprotection should be regarded as the last barrier against fire escalation, after considering other most effective and practical means.

PS_sorry for I gave the right title but the wrong number for the API standard. Sachin referred to the correct 2218.

Sachin/SafetyUser

thank you very much for your very useful information.

PKS