7 replies to this topic

[mabidmalik]

We have a situation that (for our one of comressor station facility) our diesel engine driven fire water pump mechanical seal found damage, so not available for 1 month. As an alternate electric motor driven pump is available.  

Can any one guid what NFPA 20 says about this situation, should we run facilty wih one pump or we have to go to shut down.

 

Thnx........

[breizh]

Hi Mabidmalik,

 

I would say as long you have an  electrical pump able to supply the right amount of water it should be fine . The question which may come , what is your plan in case of power outage ?

Consider to talk to the insurance company in charge of your facility , explain to them your backup plan.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Breizh

[mabidmalik]

Dear Breiz, thnx for input.

we had two incomer feeder (Power source) but one is under maintenance now a days. Also diesel generator/UPS facility is not suficient/design to run the pump.

We are still in confusion what to do. HSE department has advised us to take guid lines from NFPA 20. Can you share here the exact clause from NFPA  20. 

 

thnx.

[breizh]

Consider reading this resource , even old !

 

I guess your factory is not located in US , meaning better to refer to your local regulation and Insurance company managing the risk . You may also need to contact your fire brigade for support.

 

Hope it helps

 

Breizh

[Atttyub194]

Dear All

 

Good day !

 

Reference is made to NFPA 20 -2013 .

 

First of all , I apologize for any comment which appears to be harsh while  describing the code with some emphasis on your special requirements

1. Lets us come to the conclusion first by asking a simple question, "whether NFPA 20 in your case is applicable or whether it will  help you in concluding any decision " . To best of my knowledge is answer is simply "No".
2. Now lets discuss the reasons one by one. Reference is made to para 1.1 referring as Scope or applicability of the standard from which following may be noted:
   1. The standard deals with the selection and installation of the pumps supplying liquid for private fire protections.      ( We should agree that we  at the moment is neither in a phase of selection or installation of pump)
   2. The scope of this document shall includes liquid supplies, suction, discharge and auxiliary equipment; power supplies including power supply arrangements, electric drive and control,diesel engine drive and control,steam turbine drive and control, and acceptance test and operation (The scheme although not attached but it appear that your facility has been designed keeping in view all installation and supply requirements of NFPA 20) Please do not confuse with power supply arrangements
   3. As per para 6.2, power shall be supplied to motor driven  fire pump by a reliable source, or more approved independent sources all of which shall make compliance with section 6-4 ( Voltage drop not more than 15 percent and voltage drop at motor terminal not more than 5 %  when operated at 115 % of full load current) .The scheme was probably followed during design phase
   4. For non reliable power source para 6.2.3 need to be followed
   5. As mentioned above , all of the above para refers to design and installation phase
   6. For further clarity, para 1.2 may be referred
3. The next part of your question is what should be done in your circumstances. It is difficult to suggest with limited or no knowledge of your facility , however , in my opinion you need not toe shut down your facility assuming that your only power source is reliable ( Please check number of tripping per year of your power source)
4. However, if the reliability of power source is either not established or can not be relied then please do consider the following:
   1. Interconnection of fire water system temporarily as backup  from your second compressor station  or other available source ( if possible). if you go on this arrangement then please disconnect once the situation become normal
   2. Arrangement of an  alternate power source and probably rental generators for operating the only available fire pump in case of fire and damage of the only  available power source
   3. Availability of fire tender may also be considered  to handle emergency situation
5. One thing is very obvious from your  explanation that probably your  company do not have any emergency plan to handle fire in case of damage to your available power sources or pumps. Please do carryout a detail study  so as to avoid any major safety incident. I would advise to engage a consulting company such as Dupont for preparation of requisite emergency plans and suggestions

Best regards and God Bless You

[mabidmalik]

Dear Attyub

Good day!

 

The HC gas comression station is recently commissioned and handed over to us by EPC contractor, also the facility is remote and designed  as unmanned station. Since It is new addition that is why company's emrgency response plan my need some review before complying on it. All old and this new facility's fire fighting arrangement designed on NFPA 20.

Any ways top management decided to shut down the facility till the rectification of diesel engine pump. 

I intended to learn (from experience/expert professionals of this forum) what standards say in this situation. 

 

Thanks,

[Qalander (Chem)]

Dear,

• Just a minor comment NFPA 20 is only related to the stationary Fire water pump systems.
• Whereas any fighting facilities/systems involve a lot more NFPA, API etc. codes/standards
• Also very useful is to look into UL listed and FM approved systems details as per the case.

[Qalander (Chem)]

I must acknowledge as commendable the safer decision taken by the 'AHJ' in your specific circumstance!

Edited by Qalander (Chem), 28 May 2013 - 12:18 PM.