6 replies to this topic

[daraj]

Hi,  Iam relatively new to process engineering as my education and prior experience was in a different facet of chemical engineering. But because of demands in the current job I was a bit forced to switch to process engineering a few years into my career after having specialized in another area. Now you know that it is always difficult, because the inherent feel for equipment and the operational experience a process engineer develops cannot be learnt overnight.

However I have limited myself to conceptual process engnieering and not BASIC or detailed engineering.

Which means I will have to design a process, size equipment, prepare PFDs and prepare conceptual cost estimates. Iam fairly familiar with some of tools like HYSYS/Aspen plus/HTRI and ICARUS(for costing)

 

what I need advice on is the following:

 

1. without getting a lot of BASIC/detailed engineerign knowledge(to the point whereyou are doing stuff like HAZOP, logic control, relief valve sizing,pipe sizing etc.) is it possible to carve a career out of just these tools I know and limiting myself to conceptual process engineering? I work in a  R&D type of organization and hence asked to do this kind of workusually  for long termprojects and for feasibility studies etc.

 

2. Iam now few years experienced doing conceptual design/engineering. what are the tools Iam missing in my toolbox that could aid in being a better process engioneer? do I need to take any courses on detailed engineering in order to be a better conceptual engineer?

 

3. Are there any good online resources besides these site where I could access free lectures or tutorials which helpin stuff like developing a flowsheet from process chemistry, choosing the right equipment to design process etc. I know textbooks are out there but they are time consuming to read through sometimes and I consult them occasionally.

I know nothing can replace operational knowledge but even someone who was actually worked in the plant for a few years cannot be an expert on all kinds of equipment design. He/she would have run maybe 1 or 2 types of equipment, but not all. For example, you might have run distillation columns, but not a crystallizer. Or you may have done reactor troubleshooting but might not have had firsthand knowledge on extractor.

Being a  process design designer requires to have fair amount of knowledge on broad range of equipment and ability to simulate them.

I have been fairly successful doing soem of that, simulating columns, exchangers etc. and also preparing conceptual cost estimates.

Your tips on improving process engineerign feel and also tips on knowing any other tools, would be of great help.

PS: Not really interested in fundamental modelling and I do not want to get too deep into detailed engineering

 

Tools are only as good as the inputs you feed them. To extract the best out of them and to feed them with better inputs you need to be a good process engineer in the first place with decent engineerign judgement. THats what Iam trying to hone, in addition to adding any tools in my toolkit along the way that would helpexecute my ideas. So please advise.

[ankur2061]

daraj,

 

I spent 11 long years in plant operations before moving on to engineering design (Concept Studies / FEED / Detailed Design). My recipe for success was reading. I had always been a voracious reader but was very very selective in reading. I changed my course and started reading what was necessary for engineering design rather than what interested me. I started reading books, journals, articles, international / company engineering standards and magazines related to engineering. Additionally I developed a liking for building calculations using excel as a calculation tool. The basic understanding of what chemical process unit operations are was always there due to my operations experience but the design aspect was acquired by a combintation of working on live design projects and collecting / reading a lot of aforementioned process engineering literature. I made it a point to build my own library of process engineering literature and today I can proudly say that I have a vast collection of books, articles and standards. I had to spend a lot of my own money to acquire some of the literature, but believe me, every cent I have spent has been worth it. Last but not the least, being a part of the "Cheresources" community and having had the delightful pleasure of interacting with process engineering veterans like Art Montemayor, Nasser Fallah, Katmar, Breizh has helped me a lot in expanding my process engineering knowledge.

 

While I am not advocating that my recipe of acquiring enginneering design knowledge is applicable to one and all, reading and putting into practice what you have read is something that cannot be ignored. The advent of the internet has opened up the knowledge field tremendously and today you can find information on almost every aspect of engineering on the world-wide-web.

 

One important aspect any engineering design is working on live engineering projects whether brownfield or greenfield. The more you are involved in live projects the more the acquistion of knowledge and practical engineering design. Live engineering projects give you a real perspective of what engineering design is all about. While it is essential to know the physics and chemistry of any process it is equally important to know how engineering design is implemented to build real world chemical and process plants, that are safe, environmentally friendly, robust, profitable and economically sustainable.

 

The question you have raised does not have one specific answer and many experienced and knowledgeable engineers can provide you a lot of guidance on how to raise the bar of excellence.

 

Regards,

Ankur.

Edited by ankur2061, 23 July 2013 - 02:30 AM.

[daraj]

Thanks, Ankur. When you say "live engineering projects"do you mean plants that are going to be built soon? And are near detailed engineering stage?In which case it is a problem for me. See, process engineering is an ocean, and you cannot be an expert, especially starting late, in conceptual engineering as well as FEED as well as detailed engineering. I can maye pick up a bit of FEED as I go along, but thats about it. Detailed engineering needs some special skill sets, equipment design knowledge that will take long years to accumulate.And I work for a R&D setup where detailed engg. is seldom done and only conceptual to FEED level knowledge at best is needed.When it gets to detailed engg,we typically hire contractors and consultants to do that.

 

Also I appreciate your tip on reading a lot, I also try to do that but working n a corporate culture sometimes doesnt give you a whole lot of tme as there are deadlines. I also feel interactions ina live classroom setting or mere discussion with clleagues help in retaining information in your head longer than reading off of a book. If I read something from a book and if I dont get a chance to use it immediately ina project I tend to forget it within a month. THats a big problem. But if you are advocating learning-on-demand then point taken. You can always learn something right now just for the sake of executing a current project. But Iam talking more about developing an overal feel.

 

In conceptual process engg you are going to design an entire chemical process which typically will have a reaction-separation-purification train and you need to be able to roughly design a reactor, pumps, heat exchangers, columns, decanters, crystallizers and so on. Thats a lot of equipment and you cannot go into detail into each one of them. But you need to have some knowledge of each of them in order to be able to simulate using aspen plus or HYSYS. Thats my requirement.

 

Thanks, as always, your inputs are valued

[Lai.CY]

Hello Daraj,

 

To me, process engineering is not always about PSVs, line, vessels sizing and so on. You don't need an engineer to plug in numbers into a spreadsheet. However, it is very important that we as engineers understand what we're doing. Tools are only there to shorten the time we use instead of doing manual calculations. Don't just rely on tools and believe what you see. Understand the process parameters that will affect the end result. Hysys can generate 100 different process parameters. You might only need 2 for the sizing.

 

I personally believe in understanding the basics. A vessel, is still a vessel. Regardless if it's a Scrubber or Production Separator or Flash Vessel, etc. A relief valve will pop due to overpressure, regardless if it's Fire case, Blowby or whatever case.

 

In my humble opinion, looking at the whole picture (grab the Process drawings and keep looking) and keep talking to people (asking the correct questions) is the fastest way to grasp an idea of what's going on. It is also a good idea to talk to people from different disciplines to look at things from a different perspective. At this stage, I don't think buying books are helpful because the amount of detailing is overwhelming and you might spend days and days to finally understand one piece of equipment, but not knowing how to apply it to the real world. One month later, you probably will fail to recall what you've read. I'm not saying books are bad... It's good in the sense where you get to truly understand which parameters are considered and what's not required... It's also alot faster to grasp and understand when a similar task is given to you...

BUT, only when you have the chance to apply it and do you really need to go into such indepth?

 

You might be capable of designing and constructing a pump from scratch, but your scope is to procure a pump that will do the job. For the time being, try thinking 'What's the point of commenting on cosmetics and save 100 bucks compare to the overall networth of a FPSO?'

When you are capable of understanding the concept, then we look into detailing for process and cost optimisation.

 

Bottom line, it's all about the money...

 

Yes, you can find alot of informations online. But, most of are individual systems or specific products. What you do with all those informations and how fast you want to digest them, really depends on the opportunity given to you (to oversee the whole system) and how good you are at applying them.

 

What the world can do for you, is to teach you how to crawl and hold you hand when you fall. Whether you can walk on your own or run, purely depends on yourself.

 

Good luck! This is purely how I feel and think, others might have better ideas!

[Mach21]

a very nice sharing, thanks to Ankur2061 for such a nice experience sharing, 

[Bobby Strain]

And you might look for a job with a company where you have the best opportunity to learn.

 

Bobby

[daraj]

Thanks weiiskruez for the inputs