14 replies to this topic

[Lucianaa]

Dear all,

 

I am evaluating the losses of gasoline stored at the terminal. Some variables such as tank measurements, valves, membranes, tank bottom leaks, monitoring of tanks during operations, but nothing justified the losses. Any guidance, suggestions for evaluation?

The tanks are atmospheric and have membranes.

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for your assistance.

[breizh]

Hi Luciana,

Consider this resource

Breizh

Attached Files

•  Gas emission from storage tanks.pdf   59.56KB   3 downloads
•  Organic_Liquid_Storage_Tanks.pdf   2.19MB   10 downloads

[Lucianaa]

Hi Luciana,

Consider this resource

Breizh

 Thank you, Breizh.

[shvet1]

What do you mean losses - environmental issues or process losses?

[Lucianaa]

What do you mean losses - environmental issues or process losses?

Hi Shvet1,

 

I refer to process losses

[fallah]

 

What do you mean losses - environmental issues or process losses?

Hi Shvet1,

 

I refer to process losses

 

 

Hi,

 

Do you mean loss of inventory?

[Lucianaa]

 

 

What do you mean losses - environmental issues or process losses?

Hi Shvet1,

 

I refer to process losses

 

 

Hi,

 

Do you mean loss of inventory?

 

 

Hi fallah,

 

Correct!

[fallah]

 

 

 

 

Hi,

 

Do you mean loss of inventory?

 

 

Hi fallah,

 

Correct!

 

 

Hi,

 

In general, and roughly by subtracting the unloading volume from loading volume...

[Lucianaa]

 

 

 

 

 

Hi,

 

Do you mean loss of inventory?

 

 

Hi fallah,

 

Correct!

 

 

Hi,

 

In general, and roughly by subtracting the unloading volume from loading volume...

 

 

Hi 

 

 

Thank you Shvet1! But the question is not how to calculate, but how to investigate/identify losses in the process, which are above the acceptable level.

 

[shvet1]

I refer to process losses

 

Study precious mass metering of incoming/outcoming flows and storage inventory. Spread practices are mass flowmeters and trucks/containers weighting.

Note that such measurements usually refer to fiscal metering and mutual settlements. Not a simple task, I should warn you, as modelling methods usually greatly underestimate losses.

As per my experience with such issues every Operator establishes its own losses rates based on local record/practice.

Edited by shvet1, 03 September 2024 - 11:38 PM.

[breizh]

Hi Luciana,

Important to validate the losses over a significant period of time. 1 year is a good period of time. it will take into account the seasons and the temperature change, if you consider losses to the vent. 

Of course, accurate measurements are required, with calibration records for mass flow meters and truck scales. 

Make sure no one is taking advantage for its own benefit. Be careful, I've witnessed such behavior! 

People are smart.... I've seen truck driver replacing latex emulsion with water, same density.

Good Luck

Breizh 

[Lucianaa]

Hi Luciana,

Important to validate the losses over a significant period of time. 1 year is a good period of time. it will take into account the seasons and the temperature change, if you consider losses to the vent. 

Of course, accurate measurements are required, with calibration records for mass flow meters and truck scales. 

Make sure no one is taking advantage for its own benefit. Be careful, I've witnessed such behavior! 

People are smart.... I've seen truck driver replacing latex emulsion with water, same density.

Good Luck

Breizh 

 

 

 

Exactly!

We work with arrow volume and sometimes the flowmeter does not count the same volume. How do you make sure the arrow is correctly calibrated? Complicated!

[breizh]

Hi Luciana,

You should have a master flowmeter calibrated by 3 rd. party with all the certificates to justify its accuracy. You can install it in series with your existing flowmeter to check the difference between the meters, if any. You need to install a spool piece for this master meter to be installed time to time for Check.

Breizh

[shvet1]

"arrow volume" - what does it mean?

"flowmeter does not count the same volume" - the same as what?

"How do you make sure the arrow is correctly calibrated?" - why not to pump through it a controlled amount of a product?

 

Do you understand that there exist no a mass flowmeter that measures the mass flowrate? All industry sensors provide indirect measurement with recalculations based on assumptions of liquid properties.

 

What actual type of flowmeter do you use for this metering?

Edited by shvet1, 04 September 2024 - 09:08 AM.

[breizh]

Hi Luciana,

Can you share with us the reference and/or a picture of your meter? It should deliver M3 (accumulative meter), right? It looks like a water meter in my country!

Breizh