6 replies to this topic

[umar]

Dear All,

I am trying to design the protection system for a condensate storage area. There are 4 tanks with bunds. We have provided a rim seal foam system. According to the client Fire Protection Manual, exposure protection for the adjacent tanks is required in the event of a fire on one tank. The fire in my opinion can be of 2 types 1- Rim seal fire, in the event of which, would we need monitor coverage for the walls of the tank? Or adjacent tanks? 2- Fire on the tank/ in bund, in case of which I can understand that monitor coverage will be required for the adjacent tank, I think for atleast 25% of each tanks surface that are adjacent to the burning one, as that appraoch correct? Do we actually need monitors with a rim seal system even if the tanks are spaced such that there is adequate space? Can a rim seal fire affect the adjacent tanks? Can the wall buckle in case of a rim seal fire?
The monitors would need to be placed with in the bunds, I am aware that that is not good practice but with out doing so we can not reach the tanks so they have to be remote control or self oscillating type.
Would appreciate anyones input....Thanks

[ankur2061]

Dear All,

I am trying to design the protection system for a condensate storage area. There are 4 tanks with bunds. We have provided a rim seal foam system. According to the client Fire Protection Manual, exposure protection for the adjacent tanks is required in the event of a fire on one tank. The fire in my opinion can be of 2 types 1- Rim seal fire, in the event of which, would we need monitor coverage for the walls of the tank? Or adjacent tanks? 2- Fire on the tank/ in bund, in case of which I can understand that monitor coverage will be required for the adjacent tank, I think for atleast 25% of each tanks surface that are adjacent to the burning one, as that appraoch correct? Do we actually need monitors with a rim seal system even if the tanks are spaced such that there is adequate space? Can a rim seal fire affect the adjacent tanks? Can the wall buckle in case of a rim seal fire?
The monitors would need to be placed with in the bunds, I am aware that that is not good practice but with out doing so we can not reach the tanks so they have to be remote control or self oscillating type.
Would appreciate anyones input....Thanks

Umar,

Have a look at the following link. Should give you some better insight about fire fighting foam systems for petroleum storage tanks:

http://www.williamsf...protection.html

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Ankur.

[Zauberberg]

Also look at the attached leaflet/article.

Attached Files

•  Fire protection on Storage Tanks.pdf   401.66KB   154 downloads

[Qalander (Chem)]

Dear All,

I am trying to design the protection system for a condensate storage area. There are 4 tanks with bunds. We have provided a rim seal foam system. According to the client Fire Protection Manual, exposure protection for the adjacent tanks is required in the event of a fire on one tank. The fire in my opinion can be of 2 types 1- Rim seal fire, in the event of which, would we need monitor coverage for the walls of the tank? Or adjacent tanks? 2- Fire on the tank/ in bund, in case of which I can understand that monitor coverage will be required for the adjacent tank, I think for atleast 25% of each tanks surface that are adjacent to the burning one, as that appraoch correct? Do we actually need monitors with a rim seal system even if the tanks are spaced such that there is adequate space? Can a rim seal fire affect the adjacent tanks? Can the wall buckle in case of a rim seal fire?
The monitors would need to be placed with in the bunds, I am aware that that is not good practice but with out doing so we can not reach the tanks so they have to be remote control or self oscillating type.
Would appreciate anyones input....Thanks

Dear Umar, since our forums great helping colleagues have already guided you here above in response to your query; I just add here my little bit, in my way!

What I envisage in your case that your client is talking about/ requesting

1. The radiant heat exposure protection for nearby storage tank(s)

2. Against any Fire in one of the close vicinity tank.

3. This can be attempted(only partially) through what you mentioned i.e. 'Fixed Monitors' provision even that

1. may probably be human dependent

2. until and unless an automatic system is actuated safely, in a reliable manner

3. from remote area, or through local sensor signals

4. My preference would be having an all around the shell circumference cooling water sprinkler system protection

1. to shield/safeguard against the possible radiant heat exposure(s) if any

2. Must be adequately designed to minimize drifting loss /wastages of water resource.

Definitely it may involve sufficiently sized/appropriately designed water storage(s) and pumping, pipelines system in-place to fulfill the needs.

Hope this guides you to the correct concept of client’s comfort. Leaving aside the main rim seal Fire suppressant foam protection(s) you mentioned as already provided.

· Such a cooling system if properly designed& maintained really helps in

· Keeping even the tank on fire temperature lower

o thus avoiding of Consequential whole open top fire of tank’s contents

o If the rim-seal foam protection gives way& does not fully control the fire in short duration as designed.

Best of luck.
If you prefer please feel free to Contact me even at smwana2003@yahoo.com for detailed exchange if this is so necessitated in any way!

[Qalander (Chem)]

Dear All,

I am trying to design the protection system for a condensate storage area. There are 4 tanks with bunds. We have provided a rim seal foam system. According to the client Fire Protection Manual, exposure protection for the adjacent tanks is required in the event of a fire on one tank. The fire in my opinion can be of 2 types 1- Rim seal fire, in the event of which, would we need monitor coverage for the walls of the tank? Or adjacent tanks? 2- Fire on the tank/ in bund, in case of which I can understand that monitor coverage will be required for the adjacent tank, I think for atleast 25% of each tanks surface that are adjacent to the burning one, as that appraoch correct? Do we actually need monitors with a rim seal system even if the tanks are spaced such that there is adequate space? Can a rim seal fire affect the adjacent tanks? Can the wall buckle in case of a rim seal fire?
The monitors would need to be placed with in the bunds, I am aware that that is not good practice but with out doing so we can not reach the tanks so they have to be remote control or self oscillating type.
Would appreciate anyones input....Thanks

Dear Umar, since our forums great helping colleagues have already guided you here above in response to your query; I just add here my little bit, in my way!

What I envisage in your case that your client is talking about/ requesting

1. The radiant heat exposure protection for nearby storage tank(s)

2. Against any Fire in one of the close vicinity tank.

3. This can be attempted(only partially) through what you mentioned i.e. 'Fixed Monitors' provision even that

1. may probably be human dependent

2. until and unless an automatic system is actuated safely, in a reliable manner

3. from remote area, or through local sensor signals

4. My preference would be having an all around the shell circumference cooling water sprinkler system protection

1. to shield/safeguard against the possible radiant heat exposure(s) if any

2. Must be adequately designed to minimize drifting loss /wastages of water resource.

Definitely it may involve sufficiently sized/appropriately designed water storage(s) and pumping, pipelines system in-place to fulfill the needs.

Hope this guides you to the correct concept of client's comfort. Leaving aside the main rim seal Fire suppressant foam protection(s) you mentioned as already provided.

· Such a cooling system if properly designed& maintained really helps in

· Keeping even the tank on fire temperature lower

o thus avoiding of Consequential whole open top fire of tank's contents

o If the rim-seal foam protection gives way& does not fully control the fire in short duration as designed.

Best of luck.
If you prefer please feel free to Contact me even at smwana2003@yahoo.com for detailed exchange if this is so necessitated in any way!

Dear Umar,
any feedback was the forum support helpful?
any thing you feel like discussing or everything settled?

Edited by Qalander (Chem), 14 April 2010 - 11:01 AM.

[umar]

Ankur,

That was brilliant link and helped a great deal so thanks for that!

Qalander,

I actually managed to get hold of a fire protection manual from the client which requires 50% coverage of the periphery of a tank which has a rim seal fire along with the rim seal foam system. It gives another scenario which would involve one of the tanks engulfed in fire (a highly unlikely event). In case of a tank being engulfed the manual suggests 25% coverage of the adjacent tanks that are down wind and with in 70feet of the engulfed tank. This would rule out the need for a water sprinkler system. Remote controlled operated monitors along with foam hydrants would suffice to comply with the above stated requirements.

Please feel free to share your thoughts on the above.

Thanks and regards,
Umar

[Qalander (Chem)]

Ankur,

That was brilliant link and helped a great deal so thanks for that!

Qalander,

I actually managed to get hold of a fire protection manual from the client which requires 50% coverage of the periphery of a tank which has a rim seal fire along with the rim seal foam system. It gives another scenario which would involve one of the tanks engulfed in fire (a highly unlikely event). In case of a tank being engulfed the manual suggests 25% coverage of the adjacent tanks that are down wind and with in 70feet of the engulfed tank. This would rule out the need for a water sprinkler system. Remote controlled operated monitors along with foam hydrants would suffice to comply with the above stated requirements.

Please feel free to share your thoughts on the above.

Thanks and regards,
Umar

It is Nice that,

• you are progressing in the first place;however the scenario your client's fire protection manual suggests
• should not be disregarded as unrealistic; as in reality such cases are possible
• through a partial stuck-up of floating roof in eccentric position& flammable condensate on top with rim-seal also damaged and
• if the tank's static charge dissipation system components not designed adequately (ignition possible)and
• the refferred fire scenario is very logical to occur.

Now as regards the

• against radiation cooling protection of downwind tanks it is considered with respect to their flame exposed surface(s) and
• the approximation mentioned seem fairly reasonable to me.
• However I am still of the opinion that refer to FM Global Standard 4-1N for Fixed Water Spray systems for fire protection
• Whereas Low expansion Foam Fire protection guidance may be seen in FM Global 4-7N
• You may access this after subscribing at FM global site with your email address and password;It is great resource bank at your disposal if carefully study with a cool mind.

Best of luck feel free to contact and/or discuss any issues I may help in any way!

Edited by Qalander (Chem), 14 April 2010 - 11:38 AM.