6 replies to this topic

[Sridhar P]

need to know where me can learn simulation softwares like HYSIS,HYSIM and other chemical
engineering related software.

Thank you.

[Art Montemayor]

srismart:

The traditional, or conventional, way of learning how to employ a simulation program is through university classes that introduce you to its use - like a plant design course - or through a seminar sponsored by the simulation company. The latter can be expensive.

An engineering company - especially an engineering contractor - expects you to already be skilled in this application if you are going to be involved in simulation (like a process engineer). A contractor normally does not do any training at all; they expect (& sometimes demand) that you be totally prepared and qualified to enter your job post and start producing. An operating company - such as a producing plant - might take a more lenient approach and pay for your training (if they need the skill bad enough). However, with more engineering graduates entering the market place with these skills already attained in university, it is becoming rare for a company to pay for your training.

If you want to be trained, try contacting Sim-Sci, Aspen, or HySys to find out about their seminars. Also inquire at a local engineering university.

[gvdlans]

Art,

I do not agree with your statement that "A contractor normally does not do any training at all". Having worked for an engineering contractor in The Netherlands for more than 10 years, it was my experience that young engineers could learn to work with Hysys or PRO/II by a combination of internal courses and learning-on-the-job. Engineers who wanted to become a simulation specialist could go to external courses as well.

I personally went to several external courses (e.g. related to process control or process safety) while I was employed with this engineering contractor. A similar approach was followed in the offices located in the USA.

http://support.aspen...n/TrainHome.htm for training courses provided by AspenTech (a.o. HYSYS)

or
http://www.simsci-es...pes/default.htm for training courses provided by SimSci (PRO/II)

Guido

[Art Montemayor]

Guido

I’m glad to hear that contractors in Europe are putting up money for training engineers in simulation applications. As I said, my experience here in the USA has been the opposite.

Having worked with and for several major contractors in the USA, I found that the philosophy here is that the market dictates what a contractor will do. The aim of the engineering and construction (E&C) contractor is not to have a staff of permanent, trained and ready engineers; the contractor here is organized to obtain the staff (outside of the basic, small “core” group) necessary for a project only when he obtains a signed contract in hand and “up-front” money to initiate the engineering (expend man-hours). It has traditionally been the contractor’s business outlook that no money will be invested in long-term assets or personnel. The contractor will “staff” up only when there is a signed contract or money in hand (from the client!). In fact, if we look at most engineering contractors (I would say probably all), they never buy their “assets” – they either rent or lease – and here in the USA, they maximize the out-sourcing of personnel. I myself am presently an individual contractor, working for a contractor – and I’m not an exception. All this is driven by the economy and the outlook of reducing costs to the bone – especially social and legal obligations. Therefore, E&C firms find it more attractive to hire ready-trained professionals under contract with no responsibilities to train, sustain, or subsidize with benefits such as pensions, insurance, vacations, etc. This type of business plan basically eliminates any preparation or training programs – except safety programs (and this is only because of government regulations and insurance costs).

I think you will find that in a market-driven economy where the costs have to passed on to the final consumer, there is no attraction or incentive to train engineers when one can hire trained personnel directly from a university. I was able to get hands-on training in simulation during the 1980’s mainly because I was a manager and controlled my budget. However, as simulation-trained engineers became available right off the college campus, I hired them rather than spend money on hiring a non-literate engineer in simulation and have to train him/her. Today, this is not the usual case because most (if not all) chemical engineers are graduating with strong simulation skills acquired in university. However, those that don’t have those skills have to compete with the simulation-literate individuals and when overhead costs are an issue (as is the case today) we know who will get the job and who won’t. The question then becomes: How do I prepare myself in simulation in order to compete with my peers in the marketplace? Right now, in the USA, I find the answer is: Open your pocketbook and take a seminar course at HySys, Aspen, or Sim-Sci.

I would love to return to the days when a company would hire 100% direct employees and take the responsibility to train them and keep them trained. Perhaps the world economies will revert back to “the way it was” someday.

Hi all,

I am a process engineer with a company specialising in simulations (so I have some vested interest and bias!!!). I was very interested to read the above comments on simulations training. My experience with simulations at university (mid-late 1990's) was that the training in simulations was quite poor - with applications limited to petrochem and control and with limited knowlege of the software amongst many of the instructors. Since then however I have given numerous training courses in 'CADSIM Plus' software to engineers from large Australian and multinational firms. There is an increasing awareness (across many diverse industries) of the benefits of simulation to designers, operators, regulatory agencies, universities etc and there is also willingness to train employees.... particularly young engineers who have alreadyhad some exposure at university.

CADSIM Plus software has an online tutorial at www.aurelsystems.com/ - but you would need your employer or university to have the software. Aurel also offer training, as does my employer Clean Technology Solutions (www.cleantech.com.au)

I encourage everyone to have a look at the many products out there, as well as the most well known ones mentioned in the other replies. The performance and price vary hugely (and not necessarily in proportion) and the benefits can be enormous. Whilst many people will rely on university training it is important for managers to understand that training (and indeed software) need not be prohibitively expensive these days and tht the productivity gains can give a very fast payback if these tools are implemented properly.

Good luck Sridhar.... I hope oyur employer or university can help you out...it should not be too hard these days - otherwise you will need to check online for the specific software you are interested in.

Nat.

[niallmacdowell]

Hi all
I am a recently graduated process engineer working with a consultancy company in Ireland. It is my experience (I went to university in Ireland and the US) that as an undergraduate you receive little or no simulation training experience, reasons being costs associated with getting enough operating licences for effective teaching and time constraints. There is already so much basic engineering education required as part of the undergraduate syllabus that any attempt to include anything beyond a rudimentary introduction to simulation is pointless, and I have found this to be true on both sides of the atlantic. Consequently, it is necessary to get simulation training "on the job" through either company training or outside seminars
Niall