10 replies to this topic

[peruanolimense]

Basically what the title reports. At which pressure is benzene transported through pipeline? I've searched for information, but I found nothing. It could also be good information knowing at which pressure are aromatics (in general) transported through pipeline (maybe it is easier to find information about aromatics in general, although I've neither found a thing...)

 

Thanks guys!!

[Bobby Strain]

You are unlikely to find anything. What is your objective?

 

Bobby

[latexman]

Your objective is to minimize the long term cost of ownership, not run at the same pressure as others. A pipeline goes from point A to point B and you optimize capital and operating cost for your layout and scope.

[breizh]

Hi,

Thanks to share with us the scope of your project.

Right now, we can only make guesses.

https://www.engineer...ure-d_2073.html

Waiting for your reply.

Breizh

[peruanolimense]

You are unlikely to find anything. What is your objective?

 

Bobby

 

Hi,

Thanks to share with us the scope of your project.

Right now, we can only make guesses.

https://www.engineer...ure-d_2073.html

Waiting for your reply.

Breizh

 

Your objective is to minimize the long term cost of ownership, not run at the same pressure as others. A pipeline goes from point A to point B and you optimize capital and operating cost for your layout and scope.

 

 

Hi, thanks for your responses. 

 

I'm in the last year of my Chemical Engineering degree and I have to elaborate a complete project of a plant that produces Ethylbenzene. I've alredy made the market study (where to locate the plant, which capacity, etc.) and the basic engineering (mass balance, energy balance, analyisis of thermodynamics and reactions). I'm currently simulating in Aspen Plus in order to make the preliminar design of the reactors, distillation columns, etc.

 

The plant would theorically be located in Gelsenkirchen, Germany (I'm not going to tell you all the motivations I had to locate it there, but basically it is because there is an ethylene plant and a benzene plant in that city). Because of my location, I've supposed that the ethylene is transported through gaseoduct to my plant at 25 °C (77 °F) and 20 bar (compressed, because it is a gaseoduct), and it is afterwards compressed in my plant to the OP of the reactors. However, with the benzene I have more doubts. There is a benzene plant in Gelsenkirchen, so it would not be wild to think that it could be transported through pipeline, however, I don't know at which pressure I have to introduce it in the Aspen simulation (the pipeline would be outside my battery limits), because I don't know at which pressure is ussually transported. I just need an approximate value so I can introduce it without being too far from reality.

 

Another possible alternative is supposing the benzene arrives in trucks or train and I store it in tanks, however, I consume 496 m3/day of benzene, and the tank would have to be a 5000 m3 volume tank so that I could order benzene every 10 days (which I think is not realistic, because I think real plants order the reactives every month). I also don't know what is the maximum capacity of tanks in industry. If I choose this alternative, benzene could be introduced in the simulation at storage Pressure and Temperature (1 bar, 77 °F), however, I feel like locating the plant in a city where there is a benzene production unit, and storing the benzene and ordering it by train or truck is extremely unrealistic and inefficient.

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks guys!

[breizh]

Hi,

Thanks for sharing your scope.

-If you are considering pipeline you need to perform a hydraulic calculation as suggested by latexman , knowing the distance between supplier and customer, adding some head losses (% of pipeline length), altimetry(?) to design the transfer pump. Most probably you will need 2 pumps (1 in service, 1 standby mode). Optimization to be considered (storage tanks capacity,pipe diameter, insulation, safety (leaks)).

-- Regarding trucks, economics will be the answer (storage tanks capacity, unloading station (s), safety (carcinogenic product).

Minimum transfer time 20 tons/h 

 

Note: Consider your favorite search engine, key words Unloading benzene

 

Good luck

Breizh

[latexman]

There is a benzene plant in Gelsenkirchen, so it would not be wild to think that it could be transported through pipeline, however, I don't know at which pressure I have to introduce it in the Aspen simulation (the pipeline would be outside my battery limits),

 

Even with pipeline benzene, you need benzene storage to disconnect the ability to run your EB plant from the B supplier.  The pipeline will need periodic maintenance, and there will be unexpected problems that shut down the pipeline.  You should plan to cover about 80% of those issues.  Pipelines are usually reliable, but outages of 1-2 days are not uncommon.  Unplanned outages of > 1 week are rare. So, instead of a 10 day inventory with trucks, maybe a 3 day supply with pipeline is the sweet spot?

 

Therefore, in either case of truck or pipeline delivery, EB production will be supplied by a tank, just a different size tank, but both will be at 1 bar, 77 °F.

[peruanolimense]

 

There is a benzene plant in Gelsenkirchen, so it would not be wild to think that it could be transported through pipeline, however, I don't know at which pressure I have to introduce it in the Aspen simulation (the pipeline would be outside my battery limits),

 

Even with pipeline benzene, you need benzene storage to disconnect the ability to run your EB plant from the B supplier.  The pipeline will need periodic maintenance, and there will be unexpected problems that shut down the pipeline.  You should plan to cover about 80% of those issues.  Pipelines are usually reliable, but outages of 1-2 days are not uncommon.  Unplanned outages of > 1 week are rare. So, instead of a 10 day inventory with trucks, maybe a 3 day supply with pipeline is the sweet spot?

 

Therefore, in either case of truck or pipeline delivery, EB production will be supplied by a tank, just a different size tank, but both will be at 1 bar, 77 °F.

 

Okay, so if I didn't misundestood, I should have two tanks of benzene. One for the piped benzene storage, and another one for the backup benzene? Which is the maximum capacity of a storage tank? 

[latexman]

No, 1 tank.  Choose your primary logistics method, truck or pipeline.  Size 1 tank. 

 

If you choose pipeline and want redundancy, you can size a tank for pipeline and install truck unloading.  This will give the option of buying discounted EB on the spot market, and it will help keep your one pipeline supplier from having a monopoly on your supply.  But, still only 1 benzene tank.

 

It is your plant, do as you wish., 

[peruanolimense]

No, 1 tank.  Choose your primary logistics method, truck or pipeline.  Size 1 tank. 

 

If you choose pipeline and want redundancy, you can size a tank for pipeline and install truck unloading.  This will give the option of buying discounted EB on the spot market, and it will help keep your one pipeline supplier from having a monopoly on your supply.  But, still only 1 benzene tank.

 

It is your plant, do as you wish., 

 

Thanks, I think I'm going to choose pipeline supply. However, I have 1 more doubt. Consuming 496 m3/day, which capacity should the tank have? 

Thanks!

[latexman]

496 m3/day is about 25 tank trucks/day or 1 tank truck/hr. 496 m3/day is about 5 rail tankers/day or 1 rail tanker/4 hrs. Pipeline is the right choice.

I have already commented on the inventory needed. Maybe others will add their experience.