30 replies to this topic

Hi.. i am currently doing a project to separate a mixture of benzene from cumene.
I need to know roughly what is the cost of a distillation column that is used in the industries.
Rough specifications of column:
Height= 22m
diameter = 1.5m
Number of trays = 9

i hope that i can get a rough estimate of the cost based on these specs.

[Art Montemayor]

Figo:

I don’t know what your level of University learning is because you haven’t filled in your personal profile, but I’ll assume it is your last year. If that is the case, you must have received instructions or lectures on determining the essential data to generate an estimate of equipment costs. The essential data for determining the cost of a distillation tower are (as you should know):

1. Height = 22 m
2. diameter = 1.5 m
3. Number of trays = 9
4. Material of Construction = ?
5. Shell thickness = ?
6. Vessel heads = ?
7. Vessel weight = ?
8. Vessel nozzles = ?
9. Vessel structural steel = ?
10. Vessel ladders & platforms = ?
11. Vessel insulation = ?

You’ve identified the first 3 items. You have to specify the other missing items or eliminate them from your estimate. The real critical ones are the Material of Construction and the Shell thickness. With these, you calculate the weight of the vessel and then apply a unit monetary fabrication cost – such as US$50/lb. The unit price of the vessel will depend on your location, the size of the vessel, the wall thickness, the material(s), the quantity of welding, the fabrication codes, the market situation, the availability of materials, the competitive market situation, and many other factors. You can obtain a rough estimate by calling or contacting a shop and simply asking them a direct question as to their verbal estimate of a typical unit fabrication price.

[dylant]

There is a software (or Excel spreadsheet) called CAPCOST. Send me your email, I can send the spreadsheet to you. Or you can use textbook to determine the distillation tower cost.

[Marj]

There is a software (or Excel spreadsheet) called CAPCOST. Send me your email, I can send the spreadsheet to you. Or you can use textbook to determine the distillation tower cost.

Hi.. can you also send CAPCOST to my email?? i badly need it for my exam... my email ad is myth_marj@yahoo.com Thanks!

[joerd]

I don't think it is freely distributable. Read Zauberberg's reply.
A nice reference page can be found at Wilcox' cost page.

[Zauberberg]

And don't forget utility systems, auxiliary equipment, control loops, transport and installation expenses. Accounting for these items, the total price of your distillation tower will reach the value 2-3 times higher than the cost of tower fabrication.

[resmihadi]

Hi Dylan
if there isnt problem about violation, could you send me a copy of CAPCOST to my mail please, this is my mail: resmihadi@gmail.com.

regard
resmi

[aljabi]

there is a text book that tells you how to calculate initial design and cost of equipment called Coulson and Richardson Chemical engineering volume 6.

[cvanlang]

Likewise, is it possible to sent it to me too. chrisvanlang@gmail.com

[Angga]

Hi Dylant
could you send me a copy of CAPCOST,
this is my mail: aliefangga@hotmail.com

thanks..

[zeulsoarelui]

Hi Dylant
Can you send me a copy of CAPCOST, to the following adress:zeulsoarelui@yahoo.com
Thanks in advance!

Dylant:
Could you please do the same for me?
My e-mail is : johnvillada_1@hotmail.com
Thanks in advance!

pls send to me too.. leon_future@hotmail.com
thx a lot!

[heathj]

me too please...could really do with this...justian02@ntlworld.com
Thx.

[eageRbeaveR]

Hi...yet another desperate student seeking resouce management in terms of the CAPCOST excel sheet... please please please Dylant could you send me the sheet asap? Thanx, my email adress is:
micah3eight@yahoo.com

[hocon]

Can you send the CAPCOST spreadsheet to ngavu123@yahoo.com. I desperately need it for my final project

Thank you

[pjadams]

There is a software (or Excel spreadsheet) called CAPCOST. Send me your email, I can send the spreadsheet to you. Or you can use textbook to determine the distillation tower cost.

Dylant,

I am as desperate as the rest of you are, please - I really mean please - if you would, to send me a copy of this wonderful program (CAPCOST.xls) to my email address:

pj.adams@ymail.com

Really appreciate,

Pete Adams

[Art Montemayor]

All Naive and gullible Chemical Engineering Students requesting a free copy of the magical CapCost spreadsheet:

It is tragically sad for experienced and professional engineers like Zauberberg and myself to sit here and watch so much potential engineering skills go to total waste due to erroneous and false ideas about what a Senior Chemical Engineering Project is supposed to produce. We sit here watching all you guys/gals waste your youth, your energies, and the precious time allotted to you to do the assigned work. All you guys seem to believe that there is a magical aura about a supposed Equipment estimate spreadsheet that we professionals would never even look at - much less use in our daily work projects. Haven't you consulted with your instructors/professors and found out the truth that NO CAPITAL COST ESTIMATE OBTAINED THROUGH THIS SPREADSHEET AND OTHER SIMILAR METHODS IS WORTH THE PAPER IT IS PRINTED ON?

The cost estimates are simply not credible or applicable in the real world. You would be using 100% less time and effort and BE 100% MORE ACCURATE IF YOU USED THE $50/LB steel figure I gave above. Or, if you don't like it, use $100/lb. IT IS JUST A WILD-ASS ESTIMATE, FOR GOD'S SAKE!

No decent, educated and capable professor is going to attach a grade as to the ACCURACY of the capital cost estimate! Hell, he/she can't come up with the real, factual, and accurate estimate him/herself without requesting a fabricator for a guaranteed bid. And they can't because they are not buyers!

The Senior Chemical Engineering project is all about finding out IF YOU KNOW HOW TO GO ABOUT ESTIMATING OR DEFINING WHAT IS REQUIRED TO GENERATE AN ACCURATE FABRICATOR BID OR QUOTE IN THE REAL WORLD. IT IS NOT ABOUT WHETHER YOU CAN GUESS (BECAUSE THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT IS - A GUESS) WHAT THE CAPITAL COST IS.

The best advice I could ever give a Chem Engineering student is to focus on developing good, detailed equipment Specification Sheets and give up on "estimating" capital costs. Simply take your best guess at the costs and let the Prof/ instructor prove otherwise. They can't. Do not waste time and effort on estimating. Concentrate on defining what type, size, capacity, alloy, efficiency, and configuration of equipment you require. THAT is real-life engineering!

Real engineers let professional estimators do the estimating (& guessing). We have much better things to do -- like preparing accurate and detailed Specification Sheets (which you will find as downloads in our Forums)!

[pjadams]

Well said, there is no magic formula or spreadsheet for cost estimation. None, not even exit!

So why are we so stupid into believing such a thing? Just because we are lazy, I am included. I hope people will stop asking whoever the stupid question. Just stop, STOP!!!!

Just use the $50/lb or $100/lb, it's as good as you can get.

Well, I happen to know there is an index, something like "CHEMICAL ENGINEERING PLANT COST INDEX" or something, which was 100 in 50's or 60's, now it's 600. Well, it was 600 before the market turmoil, but now probably crashed like a rock. But "Chemical Engineering Magazine" only publish it quarterly or monthly. Does any of you know what the latest number is?

I have a few numbers here:
Apr 2008 (Final) 560.9 CEPCI
Detailed breakdown for April 2008 (final)
Equipment 676.7
Heat Exchangers and Tanks 660.0
Process Machinery 628.0
Pipe, valves and fittings 804.7
Process Instruments 437.7
Pumps and Compressors 860.2
Electrical Equipment 451.6
Structural Supports & Misc. 720.4
Construction Labour 317.8
Buildings 492.4
Engineering & Supervision 354.3

Okay, just try to be helpful.

A word of caution, I used a fake name, created a Yahoo account, posted my email address here. But I have not received the "CAPCOST.xls", not yet. However, spam got me. I received a few email from Mid-Eastern countries trying to hook me up with the "un-claimed money" -- a known scam. Be careful, I can stop checking on this account in any time, but if you posted your real account which you use for day to day email, you may have a serious problem.

Good luck to you all.

PJ? Give me a break!

[pjadams]

I do have the spreadsheet "CAPCOST.XLS" in my possession now. I clicked a button to add an equipment, it does look working. However, it's based on CEPCI of 397.

Could anybody inform me what's the current value?

Anybody who needs it, just give me a buzz, I will email it to you. It's under 1.2 mb, amazingly small.

Sincerely,

Peter.

[astro]

No decent, educated and capable professor is going to attach a grade as to the ACCURACY of the capital cost estimate! Hell, he/she can't come up with the real, factual, and accurate estimate him/herself without requesting a fabricator for a guaranteed bid. And they can't because they are not buyers!

The best advice I could ever give a Chem Engineering student is to focus on developing good, detailed equipment Specification Sheets and give up on "estimating" capital costs.

Real engineers let professional estimators do the estimating (& guessing). We have much better things to do -- like preparing accurate and detailed Specification Sheets (which you will find as downloads in our Forums)!

Further to this good advice, any student wanting to appreciate the depth and breadth of cost engineering should take a look at the body of knowledge put together by AACE International:
AACEi Recommended Practices

As a Chem Eng that's been involved in project work throughout all the various development phases, I continue to be stunned and amazed by the level of ignorance in my own part of the world, of the level of effort required to generate a cost estimate. And my exasperation comes from a small number of "peers" or "betters" who don't have the benefit of youth as an excuse and who should know better. So, hopefully the students reading here can at least get an appreciation of the issues in the mad rush to submit their assignments by the due date.

Look at AACEi RP 18R-97 for the quantity of engineering deliverables that you need to generate to arrive at any level of estimate accuracy (I recognise that the RP is working at a project level but the principles are transferable). You should also appreciate just how out of touch you will be, especially in the area of labour costs (including workforce productivity & site factors) and indirect costs - there are a range of RPs to give you insight.

How will you present your estimate? Anyone can generate a shopping list but unless you support it with a narrative that provides the basis of estimate (34R-05), then it can't stand up to scrutiny.

Have a look at RP 40-R08 and 41R-08, as well. Contingency application and analysis is an often grossly misunderstood cost factor (often design growth or management reserve is lumped in with contingency and they are different animals).

Art's right you shouldn't try to get too detailed (you're studying to be a chemical engineer not a cost engineer, which is a discipline in itself). If you have to because it's part of the assignment, then I would recommend providing discussion to qualify the shortcomings of your estimate and refer to the relevant sources (such as those noted above) to explain your deviation from the lecturer's requirements.

In fact this aspect does reflect the "real world", I've often been faced with client expectations exceeding the available time, for the people and resources at hand given the budget available. This is a perennial problem for all professionals. So, you may as well start learning about negotiating reducing excessive expectations and justifying why.

[pjadams]

Hi.. i am currently doing a project to separate a mixture of benzene from cumene.
I need to know roughly what is the cost of a distillation column that is used in the industries.
Rough specifications of column:
Height= 22m
diameter = 1.5m
Number of trays = 9

i hope that i can get a rough estimate of the cost based on these specs.

Hi Figo,

Here is the answer you wanted:

For a vertical pressure vessel with 1.5 M diameter, 22 M height, assuming CS with SS dimister, at 10 barg of pressure, the BARE MODULE COST IS: $278,000.

Outputn of CAPCOST:

Vessels Orientation Length/Height (meters) Diameter (meters) MOC Demister MOC Pressure (barg) Purchased Equipment Cost Bare Module Cost

V-104 Vertical 22 1.5 Carbon Steel Stainless Steel 10 $49,400 $278,000

CEPCI 600

Hope this helps, buddy. Feel free to ask more, hothing to it.

P. Joe

[Art Montemayor]

P Joe:

Here's another portion of common sense:

If Figo was truly doing his Senior Project in July of 2007, then he either succeeded or failed in completing the assignment. In either case, that was 1-1/2 YEARS AGO and he has moved on to greater or lesser things.

In other words, I seriously doubt if Figo is going to use the input.

[pjadams]

P Joe:

Here's another portion of common sense:

If Figo was truly doing his Senior Project in July of 2007, then he either succeeded or failed in completing the assignment. In either case, that was 1-1/2 YEARS AGO and he has moved on to greater or lesser things.

In other words, I seriously doubt if Figo is going to use the input.

Thank you,

I started a new topic relating to this issue, you may be interested in.

Have fun,

PJ