7 replies to this topic

[ucd]

I want to have the solutions of the problems given in "Introduction to Chemical engineering Thermodynamics" By Smith, Van Ness -Sixth Edition . Is there any available version?

[Doggert]

I doubt you're going to find anyone willing (even if they could) to give you the solutions to textbook problems blindly. There is a very good reason they are difficult to get - as many professors use these problems for exams and homework. If the solutions were easily available to the students, then their usefullness would be destroyed.

This goes both ways - if you have the answer sitting in front of you, you are less likely to do the hard work you need to do to get the answer. Generally speaking, it is in these times of struggle that you really learn the subject - as you are forced to consider your thoughts objectively and scientifically. This goes very much beyond simply "skimming" the chapter and mechanically going through the motions of working a problem with an answer sitting in front of you.

I speak from experience, as I have done this second version of "studying", and I can tell you that it is not useful. I have spent a lot of time going back and re-learning what I have missed in the past by taking these shortcuts. I am a practicing engineer now who is also in graduate school - and my method of study now is decidedly different from what I considered "studying" in undergrad. Bottom line - you will either do the hard work now in school, or you will do it later (if you get the chance) - but you WILL do it, or you will not be an effective engineer.

Case in point: In a recent reactor design (kinetics) course I've taken, we were given a "simple" problem. During the course of solving this problem, my answer comprised no less than 35 pages of calculations and graphs. I struggled for a week with the problem, and was given a nudge or two by my professor in the correct direction. When we finally went over the problem in class, the professor went through it in 1.5 hours, and handed out the solution in a form that was merely 4 pages. Did I overwork the problem? Yes. By more than 30 pages, I did. But - my answer was correct and sound, and in the course of solving it, I learned more about that topic than I ever could have had the professor been lazy and simply handed out the solution at the beginning. I daresay I learned more about reaction kinetics in solving that one problem than I did my entire undergraduate kinetics class.

I understand that there are times where you may simply want to check your work, but in these situations you would do well to simply schedule a time to talk to your professor about the issues you are having. They, if they are worth their tenure, will generally give you just enough of a nudge to get you back on track and headed in the right direction.

Having said all of this, there is a good series of books I highly recommend for checking the learning of difficult subjects - and one of them that I own is specifically for Thermodynamics.

These books are REA's Problem Solver's series of books. The contain nothing but problems solved in intricate detail with explanations at every step. They are cross-referenced with the major "themes" of the subjects they cover, so you can look up problems specifically tailored to the concept you are studying. They are meant as a companion piece to any textbook on the subject, and are very good for helping you to check your understanding of the subject and organizing your thoughts clearly.

I think you should check with your professor first, and you should check into getting REA's book on Thermodynamics as well. This combination, I believe, will give you the best preparation - and help you much more than simply giving you the ever sought after "answer".

Good luck.

[Art Montemayor]

I take this opportunity to commend and envy what Doggert has written: The Truth to learning the art of problem solving.

It takes courage and/or the scars of experience to relate to students what they most fear and prefer not to hear. The eternal quest for the magic elixir or the free fountain of knowledge that will enable all Chemical Engineering students to successfully evade or avoid any hard work or effort towards obtaining their degree is analogous to the search for the Fountain of Youth or the Genii in the bottle. Doggert has called it exactly what it all amounts to – you either do the work (whether you like it or not) or you don’t learn.

It’s all very simple, but terribly distasteful to all engineering students who are constantly taunted and tempted by their fellow Liberal Arts candidates. And the temptations are formidable: Frat parties, sports events, festivities, camaraderie, popularity, rock concerts, vacations, and a lot of good times and entertainment. But eventually, the “Grim Reaper” will knock on the door to announce what every student doesn’t want to hear: “There are no free rides or free lunches; you must pay for what you expect to receive.” This usually occurs around the 2nd or 3rd year of university and for those students who haven’t paid the price, and it means they simply won’t graduate as engineers.

Doggert’s response is one of candor and truth. It matches, in detail, everything I went through and learned as an undergraduate. Every time I had the answers to an engineering problem in front of me, I failed to work the problem in detail and simply “skimmed” through the process. Later, I would find out that there is no such thing as “skimming” through an engineering problem – unless you have 30 or 40 years of prior engineering under your belt. I concur with Doggert’s excellent advice. A student can never overwork a problem without getting some useful experience and knowledge out of the exercise. And, in the end, that is what a student is supposed to be doing. Of course the prof can work the problem in 1/10th of the time a student can. He should. The prof spends his time working the same problems most of his life – sometimes to the point where he memorizes the basic data and algorithm. That, unfortunately, is why some profs can’t function usefully out in industry – where the problems are constantly changing in quality, quantity and scope. That is where Doggert’s methodology of mastering the problem by hard work comes in as the answer to how to succeed out in industry – hard work.

Hard work is the element that makes for a “level” playing field in the highly competitive arena of Chemical Engineering undergraduate schools. It ensures that the less-gifted but highly motivated and work ethic-led student is able to compete and often defeat the more inherently gifted and naturally high test scorer type of student. In over 47 years of engineering I’ve seen many naturally gifted and exceptionally smart engineers fail where more “deprived” engineers with mediocre preparation and less mental accomplishments have succeeded due to a tenacious and unrelenting work ethic applied to their chemical engineering studies. I am convinced that hard work is the universal equalizer in human relations.

As Doggert points out, the REA books are only useful in that they detail out and fully make you aware of the intricate and necessary steps needed to come to a successful solution with full understanding of what was done and what is needed in similar situations. This, in professional engineering is known as fully accounting for your work output by furnishing complete and accurate documentation of your problem/project resolution. As a professional, you have to be ready to explain as well as to defend your answer or position in a problem.

All Chemical Engineering students reading this thread would be well advised to read Doggert’s response and take his advice to heart.

[JBradley]

Whilst the previous answers make their own points they fail to really answer the question.

Mc-Graw Hill Published a Solutions Manual in 1995

ISBN-10: 0070592403

ISBN-13: 978-0070592407

(Like all solutions manuals) it's pretty hard to get hold of because it's not much good to anyone except for those with far too much spare time on their hands (or possibly even cheating students??). But if you can't get it from someone like amazon then you could always order it from a copyright library.

I'd also like to add that lecturers shouldn't really be setting their students questions they found in textbooks because that belies a bit of laziness on their behalf - and if their students go out and get the solutions manual then good for them.

Also - and im drifting from the point here - some textbooks take their questions from university set course material for example Coulson & Richardson grrrrr.

[kenoidz]

hi ucd!

I've also been looking for the answers to the problems given by that book about a year ago and I wasn't that successful enough. A faculty of our school told me that the author would only give answers (not solutions) to department heads only, and not to mere students. Anyways, we haven't wrote a letter to Mr. Smith and Van Ness. Why don't you try writing them. However, chances are that they might only give answers and not the total solutions..Again, just try writing...You might get solutions.

[xerxes]

i have a compelete solutions manual of smith, van ness and abbot

and it is helping me with my thermo course work, kuddos to doggert, very well said, err, typed

anyhow, even if you have the solutions manual, you still need to do a lot of hard work since the solution is given in mathcad (pdf format)
you can only understand it if you know mathcad as well as the concepts/foundations for the problem, otherwise it is of no help...

i believe the publisher gives online access to professors handling the subject

[madmanfrommars]

I'm not in agreement with the uselessness of having solution manuals for textbooks. If all you're going to do is use them to crap your way through homework then yeah they're probably going to be useless, but good students can make use of solution manuals in order to practice and understand the material they have. There isn't a point to cheating through homework anyway when its usually worth so little.

Personally, I got several solution manuals for my textbooks (although the engineering ones are hard to come by), and I found them helpful because professors wouldn't give out answers to any of the problems, but on my own I was able to work through a multitude of problems and actually know if I was getting the correct answer or not.

Solution manuals saved me in organic chemistry, because I was able to practice all the reactions in the textbook so when the exam time came I was prepared. No the instructor did not use exact problems from the book, but I knew what I was doing.

With the wrong types of people solution manuals can be worthless, but they can also be a great asset.

[Allen]

In my course, examples from standard text books were only used for routine tutorial/homework assignments. For periodic class tests and exams, our lecturers devised their own problems. As a result, no convenient solutions were available. The only exception I recall was in my Maths final exam when a question involving a forth order partial differential equation which was lifted from a text book. Fortunately, I remembered working through the problem during revision - 20% marks in the bag!

Interestingly, our final exams were "open book" which meant you could take text books into the exam. Before you gasp, this meant that questions had twists which involved wider knowledge rather than material easily found in a text book. One example I remember well was a problem about a batch solvent recovery unit. You were given full details of the column, boiler and condensor. The plant manager wanted to know if the unit could be used for a larger throughput and if not, what mods were needed to achieve the duty.

The answer was yes provided the condensor was turned through 90 degrees so that greater condensation was achieved through the new tube orientation. Most people attempting the problem spent a lot of time with detailed calcs when in reality no significant calcs were needed. All the problem required was an understanding of how tube orientation affects condensation.

The moral of the story? Learn and understand the fundementals of the subject!