2 replies to this topic

Hi dear friends

I'm working on an optimization project for a gas treating plant, our plant removes H2S using DGA , We're investigating economic optimization on absorbent selection {DGA source is not handy for us} Now I'm looking for DGA (diglycolamine) , MEA and DEA prices all around the world. anybody can help? I'm looking for a valid price list. No matter where is the petrochemical plant.

I know HUNTSMAN company produces these materials , but I can't find it's price list { http://www.huntsman.com }


Your help will be appreciated.

Thanx

[Art Montemayor]

I would like to help you amiroo. But I consider this exercise that you are being put through as a total waste of time, effort and opportunity to really learn something about the real engineering world.

The idea that chemical engineering students can absorb or learn anything from spending their time seeking out and trying to force chemical suppliers to furnish “meaningful or realistic prices” for their chemicals is, in my opinion, ludicrous and very ignorant on the part of engineering professors. It is obvious these same professors prefer to have their students waste time and give them (the teachers) more idle and leisure time to spend doing nothing. It goes directly against all engineering principles and logic to believe that a green student who has no basic idea where to start or how to negotiate and furthermore has no leverage or authority to purchase, negotiate, decide, or opine regarding the purchase of fictitious quantities of chemicals can actually come up with a credible price.

Industrial chemicals are purchased by purchasing agents who work directly with operating company hierarchy or management. The decision to purchase and from whom is dictated primarily based on business decisions – hardly never on engineering decisions. Prices are negotiated on the basis of “deals” made based on world quantities, methods of payment, currency, future deals, business relationships, purchasing leverage, marketing strategies, demand, need, and sometimes political reasons. For all practical purposes, all the previous reasons are totally out of the engineering spectrum of responsibility and interest. That is why all engineering students who come to our Forums seeking help in this area feel totally helpless and don’t really know where to start to identity a real, credible monetary value to put on a chemical – and they should feel that way! The assignment is based on ignorance or laziness on the part of the professors giving it. It is the teachers who should identify the monetary value of the chemicals to be used in an academic engineering problem – not the students!

When real, practicing engineers need to assign a price to a chemical, they go to their company’s purchasing department with the request and wait for the correct answer – in writing. That way, they have a recognized and credible number they can use in their calculations and also refer to if they are asked. That is the real, logical, engineering way to resolve that need. And that is the reason why I – and almost all practicing engineers – never bother with wondering or bothering about obtaining “prices” on the chemicals we employ in our processes.

I don’t want to disillusion you or to turn you away, empty-handed. My purpose is to teach you how this problem is really handled and to let you know that your teachers are, in my opinion, using you to waste a lot of time. They may not be doing this intentionally, but rather simply because they have no experience in this matter and fail to study or see the practical, big picture of how business enterprises are run and operated – such as chemical plants. They also may just be lazy and prefer to let YOU do the effort. You simply do not employ graduate engineers to solicit or generate chemical prices in industry. The graduate engineer is much too expensive to use in this type of semi-clerical duties. Engineers are intended, and employed, for more dire and expensive problems. I do not intend to place self-importance on us engineers; I simply want to place logic and common sense where it is best used and employed.

My basic advice in this type of situation is to let your professors know that you have made an honest, diligent effort in generating prices, The numbers you come up with should represent that – and nothing more. Ask for their help in this matter if they don’t agree with the method or attempt. In short, do what you have been assigned – not because it is the intelligent and best thing to do with your time, but merely because you have to obey and follow instructions. The need to “cooperate and graduate” is always in the background for students and sometimes we all have to do some pretty stupid things that have been assigned to us – whether we like it or not or whether it is efficient or not. As long as it is not immoral or illegal, go ahead and do it – at least try to do it to the best of your ability. Write to or talk with suppliers and indicate to them that all you really need are “estimates” – never any legally binding, contractual prices. Some of them may understand and suffer the bother and waste of time to furnish you with some figures that they fabricate.

Hi dear 'Art Montemayor'
Thanx for your advices. and thanx for the time you've paid on me. But I think there is a difference between my question and your advices. The project I'm handling is not a cost estimation at all. my project concerns simulation of a chemical plant to enhance some futures on it {and one of the futures is amine type}. I think evaluating price for all equipments ,utilities and chemicals which are being changend in process optimization is neccesary. This plant is placed here in my city, I've asked the company price of amine they use, But I think to reason which you've mentioned ,They're answer had nothing for me. I don't think my project is 'wasting of time'. (this is part of economics and design course and more). I think each student should do such a project in his studies. {and I think you've done either} If cost estimation wasn't part of a chemical engineer's concerns, why price Indexes where defined, why books like 'peter's' , 'thronton' and ... have been written? I understand your advices , I know you want me to pay my time for more valuable projects{and I appereciate you} but I think it's not bad to concern with prices and companies too. The minimum benefit of this type challanges is searching and being introduced to chemical and petrochemical companies around the world. and the best benefit of these searchings is being introduced to engineers like you andgetting their advices, making friendships and relationships. these are valuable for me. Science is not just reading books.
Againg I appereciate your sentences and advices.

and it will be usefull for me if anybody can make an estimate on MEA, DEA, DGA prices {on the same contract situation (political and ... ) , for coparison purpuses only }