100 replies to this topic

[Art Montemayor]

If you post your full name, country or state, and University name I'll send you an Excel Workbook that I've prepared to help and orient your engineering graduates with respect to volumes and calibration of pressure vessels. Involved in this is the discussion of vessel heads and their application and geometry.

If your university has not offered nor prepared you in Strength of Materials and at least some knowledge of pressure vessels and their construction, then you are receiving (in my opinion) a defective chemical engineering education. I have complained and ranted about this neglect at every opportunity that I've had and I don't think I'll live long enough to see Chem E. university departments do something positive about teaching this vital and necessary subject. I obviously can't educate you on this subject over the internet, but you can start by reading a book by Eugene Megyesy which I have recommended in other threads. I'm not at my home library, so I don't have access to it but you can find out about it by reading through some of the threads on this forum. I highly recommend you (& all other Chem E. students) obtain a copy of this book. This is probably the most practical book you will ever own in your life.

I'll await your reply.

[Art Montemayor]

Adnan:

I'm responding to your candor and honest request with a copy of my workbook. Look in your inbox and you should receive it shortly.

There is nothing I admire more than a truthful and resourceful engineering student who aspires to be better by acquiring knowledge and insight. I only wish I could help you more with your need for mechanical skills and learning. I hope you are able to acquire a copy of Eugene Megyesy's "Pressure Vessel Handbook". I can recommend some websites where you can download spreadsheets on pressure vessel design according to ASME Section VIII, but I'm afraid this would not help you out when you haven't yet taken courses where tensile strength and strength of materials are taught. I would recommend that you seriously approach your university's school of mechanical engineering and inquire as to the availability of taking such a course.

Good Luck, and I hope you profit by the workbook I'm sending.

[proinwv]

While it would be good to have some ME background, as a Mech Eng'r I wonder if a ChE would receive an adequate background with a few college courses. I know that while I did receive some Chem classes, I certainly would not do ChE myself. I would ally myself with a colleague or a consultant.

In the US, one would/should be expected to be a licensed engineer to engage in pressure vessel design.

PAUL
www.ostand.com

[Art Montemayor]

Paul:

You have touched on a very good point and I would add some comments to yours. One of the attributes that can be identified with a ChE education is that it is much diversified. I was a boilermaker during summers while I went through my ChE curriculum at Texas A&M and I was amazed at how many courses I had to take in ME, EE and CE. However, I never saw or met an ME student in the school of ChE. All of us engineering students had to take Chemistry, but that isn’t related to ChE – except perhaps in name. One of the educational effects I’ve noted through the years is that U.S. universities have stressed more nuclear and computerized-related courses in ChE and this has taken a lot out of the ME background which, in my opinion is vitally needed. I’ve particularly noted this deficiency in young ChE grads that have been in my charge. Many other engineers (especially universities) fail to recognize the need that a ChE has for a deep and thorough knowledge of knowing how a pressure vessel of tank is designed and built. Note that I haven’t inferred a need to design an ASME section VIII vessel or an API tank, but rather to understand and be familiar with the methods and skills required. Of course, as a registered PE I have designed, specified, and built many pressure vessels and tanks. But that is a skill and training that I acquired both academically and, more importantly, as a boilermaker and class A welder.

Specifically, the areas where a ChE is found to be “hurting” with respect to vessel design and fabrication is in the following:

1) Process design requires the preparation of detailed specifications for heat exchangers and the need to specify the type and construction characteristics – shell & tube, welded construction, rolled or seal-welded tubes, types of heads, U-tube construction, nozzle specifications, etc., etc.. While these specifications are sometimes done by an ME, it requires an ME with process knowledge or background because of the fluid, thermal, and hydraulic characteristics and process needs. However, since it is almost always a ChE who does the process design, simulation, mass & heat balance, and basic design, it falls on the young ChE to specify or communicate with the other disciplines as to the mechanical needs of the process.

2) It is specifically a ChE who determines and sets the diameter and height of many – if not most - process vessels. This is so because it continues to be only ChEs who take ChE courses and learn the discipline of process design in Unit Operations and Process Operations. This is an unfortunate, but continuing lack of cross-discipline between the engineering degrees as I’ve stated previously. It therefore falls on the ChE to be responsible for making sure that the proper height, diameter, volume, vessel internals, and other physical characteristics vital to the process be safely and efficiently incorporated in the design. To accomplish this is what has been a traditional stumbling block for many young ChE grads. Without the important educational background of an ME in strength of materials and vessel design and fabrication, the ChE is at a net disadvantage to take important steps in making for a safe, economical, and efficient physical design. As an ex-boilermaker and welder, I had an exceptional advantage over most other engineers in that I had an intimate knowledge of what is involved in the fabrication of a vessel. Today, I still see a lot of poor MEs doing extra work in educating ChEs in the field on such mundane subjects as to the need for stress relief, where and how nozzles can be placed on vessels, the under-pinnings of storage tank mechanical strength and MAWP, the difference between ellipsoidal heads and ASME F&Ds, the need for careful specification of internals vis-à-vis vessel manways, nozzle locations, ladders, platforms, etc., etc. I have found that the more the ChE makes it a point to over-lap his knowledge with that of an ME, the stronger and more efficient the design team becomes. It behooves the ChE to learn and become more of an ME. A broad engineering background makes for a better engineer in design and in operations – and this logically follows the nature of a diversified ChE curriculum.

3) A ChE is expected to furnish other disciplines with basic design data such as instrument needs and locations. In specifying a liquid level within a vessel, the engineer must be able to specify the expected height, volume, and variations expected. To do this, he must be familiar with the vessel’s fabrication: cylindrical body and various types of heads as well as horizontal or vertical orientation. A “strapping” of the vessel should be a specific goal of the design engineer in order to furnish the instrumentation team to better apply the correct level instrument. Few, if any, young ChE grads know the difference between a flat, ellipsoidal, or ASME F&D head. Even less know that standard heads are fabricated on different basis as to O.D. or I.D. This sometimes makes a vital difference when designing for a “flush” internal wall due to process or fluid needs.


I could go on and on with an extended litany of specifics, but in the interest of brevity I’ll let the above serve as examples of what I mean when I insist that ChEs working under me have a thorough engineering background. I write this as an explanation on what I’ve observed in industry during the past 45 years and also with an expectation that young engineers –whether they be ChEs or MEs – take more of an active role in assuring themselves of having the proper tools to communicate and complement their expertise with other engineering disciplines. It is in this manner that young engineers become more proficient and effective when working as a team in design or in operations.

Art Montemayor

[hardiskuae]

Dear ART

my name is Sultan, i m interested to learn more about pressure vessel desigen please forward
workbook forme

name: Sultan
country:UAE
working for gas plant
my email is ssumaida@gasco.ae

best regards
Sultan

[process equipment]

Dear Art,

I'm very impressed in your knowhow and your expertise. This forum makes it possible to people who can share knowledge around the world, and I'm glad to be a member.

Well I will start my Ms thesis soon. My background is mechanical engineering .but specialization in Process and Equipment Design. However there is no specific course about equipment mechanical design, but more conceptual. We focus on the equipments in the process industry and make sure that these equipments perform well. So I'm also interested in your work, anything about process design and flow sheeting and equipment design (mechanical). I will be grateful if you can provide me with the workbook. In fact my main interest is in the oil, gas an petrochemical business.

My name is: Roberto
email:rsds.05@gmail.com
Country: The netherlands

Kind Regards

PE

[samuray_x]

Hi art, i am a junior year chemical engineering student from national institute of tech, bandung-indonesia. I am taking the course in mechanical design of pressure vessel in this semester. i wish to use your workbook as my supplementary course material beside the Megyesy's PVHB. I hope by your assistance i can grasp the course material faster. Thank you for your kind attention.

regards,
albert t (national institute of technology, indonesia)
samurayal@yahoo.com

[trilok_sontakke]

Dear Art

Firstly I thank you as you always helped me.I will be also intrested in this workbook and related web sites.

my email : trilok_sontakke@rediffmail.com


Thanks
Trilok

hi there l am a mechanical engineering student in turkey in final class can you help me for finding information about pressure vessel design for all kinds of pressure and fluid thanks for now my e-mail adress is
onur-sen3509@hotmail.com

[yinka]

Hello Mr Art Montemayor

I really appreciate your explanation of the roles of a CHE as regards pressure vessel design. This is often a source of conflict in industry. I am a beginning experience ME working with NETCO in Lagos Nigeria. However the level of exposure to design activities has been low in my opinion and ever since then i have made attempts to increase my knowledge of this subject by searching for available online courses. Area of interest is vessel internals design and location, nozzle sizing and location, head design and selection etc

I will be grateful if the workbook you mentioned can also be made available to me. My e-mail i : yinkaakins2001@yahoo.com

[panduru]

Montemayor:

As a Mech. Engr., involved in process equipment design, I hope I will be immensely benefited from your workbook.
Kindly fwd a copy of the workbook for my personal reference and use. Thanks very much.
K Panduru <k.panduru@gmail.com>
179 Vayupuri Secunderabad 500 094

[santy]

Hello Art,
Exactly as you said, As a ChE student, I definitely need a strong background of ME as well. I am now suffering a bit in mechanical design of a ditillation column for EO process, although the process part has been finished. But currently I could not follow any practical mechanical design of distillation column. More cosiderations have to be taken into than doing with a simple column. if it wouold be OK with you, could you also send me the excel workbook? Hopefully it would give a quick getting start.

mail address: santy.ge@gmail.com
Thanks,
Santy