23 replies to this topic

[Julien123456789]

Dear All,

Could you tell me how we uninstall a broken flare head ?

I imagine its very high position may give a lot of difficulty for uninstalling it. 

Then, is it necessary for shutting down the refinery while uninstalling process ?

 

Thank you in advance,

 

Julien

Edited by Julien123456789, 22 April 2016 - 07:12 AM.

[breizh]

Julien ,

Unless you can install a spare unit , you need to wait for a turn around .

This equipment is a must have . What do you think ?

 

Breizh

[Julien123456789]

Mr. Breizh,

Thank you so much for your comment.

You are right. We have 3 permanent working burners and 1 spare.

For now, 2 of 3 permanent working burner failed. We activated the spare one. It means that we are using 2 burners.

I am wondering if we need to shut our unit down  ?

After shutting down the unit, how operator can take down these burners for a fixing.

 

Julien

Edited by Julien123456789, 22 April 2016 - 07:19 AM.

[breizh]

Julien ,

 

Someone within your organization should assess the risk !

 

My thought

 

Good luck

 

Breizh

[Julien123456789]

It is just a scenario that our operating team discuss but the main question is how to take these broken burners down after getting a shutdown permission.

Luckily, It does not happen at least for now.

 

Julien

Edited by Julien123456789, 22 April 2016 - 07:29 AM.

[Art Montemayor]

Julien:

 

As Breizh has pointed out, this is a serious safety issue.  You must evaluate your available options and the necessary steps to carry any of them out.

 

For example, how close are the spare, stand-by flare(s) installed to the existing working one?  If too close to avoid radiation burns, then you must await the eventual shut down or shut the plant down when ready to carry out the option.

 

Working on a flare unit usually involves elevated work required by personnel.  This is a direct working hazard and specific and detailed plans have to be in place and carried out by experienced and capable workers trained to do this maneuver.  Your organization may not have these resources available on site and you may have to contract these services to outsiders.  Safety training is then involved and must be carried out for those contractors with full knowledge of all management.  Working contracts have to be negotiated and signed and meetings carried out.  You have a lot of work ahead of you if you opt for this option.

[fallah]

It is just a scenario that our operating team discuss but the main question is how to take these broken burners down after getting a shutdown permission.

 

Julien,

 

Appears you didn't clarify the issue clearly...! In your first post you mentioned about broken flare head (or header?) and here you are explaining about broken burner...

 

Please explain about the issue clearly and in detail...

[Julien123456789]

Thank you so much Mr. Art Montemayor an Mr. Fallah,

I am aware of the importance of the situation and I am sorry about my cloud explanation. The issue comes from the burner not flare head.

There is not any problem about radiation, etc. We need to shut our unit down and wait to safe conditions before advancing the works.

We are facing to the manner that how to take the burner down because of its weight and also its high elevation.

It is sure that our sub-contractor will carry out this mission. 

 

Julien.

Edited by Julien123456789, 25 April 2016 - 01:29 AM.

[fallah]

 

We are facing to the manner that how to take the burner down because of its weight and also its high elevation.

It is sure that our sub-contractor will carry out this mission. 

 

 

Julien,

 

Why do you need to take the burner (flare tip) down while it's not included any component can be subject to failure?
 

[Julien123456789]

Dear Mr. Fallah,

One more time, I am sorry about my cloud explanation.

In the topic, terms "flare head" = "burner". There is no problem for the flare head.

It is confused here because my team usually uses  the terms "flare head" as burner.

As conclusion, I am only talking about the burner. That's why I put terms of burner in bracket on the title of the topic.

 

Julien

Edited by Julien123456789, 25 April 2016 - 02:00 AM.

[fallah]

Julien,

 

Thanks for your clarification; but my question about the reason of taking down the burner is still unanswered...

[Julien123456789]

Mr. Fallah,

The reason is there is not any signal sent to our DCS. We can not ignite it. 

Our mechanical team told me that they collected some photos from the camera, and it may be broken this burner.

That's why we are considering take it down.

 

Julien

[breizh]

Hi Julien ,

You should consider to talk to people working in this field like John Zink or others . You are going for trouble if you don't do the things seriously .

 

Hoppe you understand .

 

Breizh

[Julien123456789]

Thank you Mr. Breizh for your notice and the contractor that you recommend,

I am aware of it.

Our turn around comes in 2 weeks. We are considering a global maintenance at this period.

 

Julien

[fallah]

 

The reason is there is not any signal sent to our DCS. We can not ignite it. 

Our mechanical team told me that they collected some photos from the camera, and it may be broken this burner.

 

 

Julien,

 

Did you test the connection between ignition panel and DCS? It might this connection is failed thereby there would be no signal in DCS...
 

[Julien123456789]

Mr. Fallah,

You have reason. In fact, We already thought about this but our instrumentation team confirmed that all cables stay in good conditions.

This morning, our supervisor decided let it be and try to keep the operation till turn-around period in 2 weeks.

By the time, We are contacting local engineering companies.

Anyway, thank you so much for your opinion and it is really appropriated by our team.

 

Julien

[fallah]

 

You have reason. In fact, We already thought about this but our instrumentation team confirmed that all cables stay in good conditions.

 

 

Julien,

 

My mean isn't limited to check the cables; in fact pilot and ignition system are comprised ignition panel with manual/auto ignition and re-ignition modes, pilot with dual elements thermocouple(s), incoming fuel gas lines and connection cables which the fault can be due to each of mentioned component failure.

 

Then, I think you are mostly faced with an electrical/instrument issue rather than mechanical one and the matter might be resolved without a need to taking down the flare tip...
 

[Julien123456789]

Mr. Fallah,

You have reason and I hope that our instrumentation team already took care about it.

Anyway, I will transfer your opinion to them for making sure about the situation.

 

Julien

[Mahdi1980]

Dear Julien

Would you please tell me what is exactly your problem.

As I understand, your one of your burners has been broken and it seems that its stack has failed. Doesn't it?

You wanna fix it without Plant Shut down. OK?

and in addition you want to take it down to repair. OK?

 

So, please clarify the below items:

1- Which signals from burner go to DCS? In most burners as far as I know, the burner section is located at the bottom of the equipment unlike flare which ignator and burners are located at the top of the stack on ".flare tip".

Please let us have a schematic sketch of your burner and clarify which variables send signal to DCS.

2- If you have a spare burner which capacity is enough for normal operation, you can continue your production during the reconstruction of your burner.

3- You should exactly clarify on the sketch that which part has been broken.

if the stack was broken may be online welding could solve the problem.

If other parts are broken and you can manufacture them via detailed drawing of them, so first rebuild them and replace in the least time.

 

Mahdi

[Julien123456789]

Dear Mahdi,

Thank you so much for your interest about my query.

I will collect relevant documents and send it to you later.

 

Julien

[manojkaila]

Dear Julien,

 

There must be one davit arm on the flare tip and wrench near the bottom part. This will be used to removed the flare tip after dissemble.

Only thing we have to decide that repairing is possible on top position ( e.g. replacement of pilots, RTD's, Igniter etc) then it is easy. If flare tip is deformed or damaged very badly then need to repair / replace. My opinion is better you have new flare tip and just replace during down time. If you do not have spare flare / Stand by it means you have to remove all the light hydrocarbon from the system. Depressurize all the plant and purge with N2.

 

Good Luck

 

Manoj 

[Julien123456789]

Dear Manojkaila,

Thank you so much for your suggestion.

I take note you advice.

 

Have a nice day,

 

Julien.

[breizh]

Hi Julien ,

Some basics about flare , you and others may like these documents .

 

hope this is helping you.

 

Breizh

Edited by breizh, 02 May 2016 - 04:26 AM.

[Julien123456789]

Dear Mr. Breizh,

Thank you so much for these resources.

I will profit them.

 

Julien