Jump to content



Featured Articles

Check out the latest featured articles.

File Library

Check out the latest downloads available in the File Library.

New Article

Product Viscosity vs. Shear

Featured File

Vertical Tank Selection

New Blog Entry

Low Flow in Pipes- posted in Ankur's blog

Commissioning--text Book Or Guide ?


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
34 replies to this topic
Share this topic:
| More

#1

  • guestGuests
  • 0 posts

Posted 14 January 2009 - 06:56 AM

hi , im in my final year and currently working on my design project, (lpg storage and recovery at ambient pressure)

As part of the project i need to give some concideration to the commissioing of the plant. I was wondering if anyone knows of any texts out there that may be of any help to me.

Iv had a look in the Knovel libery but i cant find any practical solutions only definitions.

Any help would be most welcome

#2 Art Montemayor

Art Montemayor

    Gold Member

  • Admin
  • 5,780 posts

Posted 14 January 2009 - 07:35 AM


Simon:

Any book or instructions on commissioning process plants would, in my opinion, be so general and vague so as to be practically useless. I've never read one or even heard of one.

Every process or plant that I've designed, built, commissioned, or started up has been a new, different, and unique circumstance. That is the beauty of engineering. There is no "cookie cutter" projects. Each one is unique and has to be designed and studied on its own merits and defects.

In order to attempt a plant or process commissioning, you must demonstrate a considerable amount of hands-on experience and know-how. This is not an area where you can "slide by" with solely book learning. If I were to come upon a situation where my commissioning engineer(s) only had text book knowldege regarding commissioning, I would abandon the premises. I simply could not trust or put my life or well-being in such in-experienced hands. I am confident that any engineer with my background and experience would tell you the same thing.


#3

  • guestGuests
  • 0 posts

Posted 14 January 2009 - 07:50 AM

I thought someone would say that , i aggree with what you are saying 100%.

However been a student i have no pratical experience so depend upon "book" learning and when 25% of your design project relys on it , what do you do?

I have obviosly concidered it from a pratical point of view i was just hoping to find a few gereral rules of thumb.

I know every project is different but is there a gerneral proccedure for say starting up a distilation column or leak testing an lpg tank. How do you remove water/moisture from the system after contruction ?

I am not trying to get people to write my project but when you have only three years of study and NO experience you have to start somewhere.


#4 Art Montemayor

Art Montemayor

    Gold Member

  • Admin
  • 5,780 posts

Posted 14 January 2009 - 08:29 AM


Simon:

My response was not intended to discourage you or avoid giving you a positive answer to your problem. However, I had to paint the actual, real picture in order to ensure you fully understand that you are crossing a difficult area.

As you state, you are merely a student now; you simply cannot be held liable for skills and knowledge yet to be acquired in the future. Any reasonable and fair professor/instructor knows this and should apply it in their evaluation of your work product. The important thing to always bear in mind is, as you have astutely recognized, that you can't possibly know about certain skills and know-how that you (& others) have not had the opportunity to confront in the past. You are limited in your awareness of many detailed and specific safety and operational items and techniques that can only be acquired through experience. Therefore, you are left to rely on the one, traditional, and trust-worthy tool that you do possess (if you are a qualified engineering student): your God-given, common horse-sense.

By applying common sense to your comissioning questions you can at least identify a lot of areas that immediately should be of concern and labeled as important or hazardous. Common items such as:

How do we establish that the system is filled with the proper fluids? How do we safely get rid of the atmospheric air that exists at the start?
How do we ensure that the process system is totally cleaned out and capable of handling the process fluids? Can we expect any trash, debris, and hazardous contaminants within the constructed and newly erected process system?
How do we ensure that all required utilities are properly connected? Is this important?
Is it important to ensure that all equipment drivers should be rotating in a proper direction?
How do we make sure that the process (& all humans) are protected from any hazardous scenario(s) at the outset?
What safety precautions seem reasonable and recommended at the initial startup?

There are many other questions and comments that make sense and should be detailed out. By sitting down at a local Starbucks coffee shop and having a few cups of Java, you can meditate and concentrate to the best of your ability and generate such a long list. This, in my opinion, is the most that any professional engineer could expect from a young student. You say you are to give "concideration to the commissioing of the plant" and if you do as I have outlined, no one can deny that you have not done what you set out to do.


#5

  • guestGuests
  • 0 posts

Posted 14 January 2009 - 08:41 AM

Many thanks for your swift and frank advice. If only the academic world moved at your speed.

I will take your advice and use my limited knowledge to come up with both questions and answers. As you say if I consider the problems and suggest practical solutions there’s not much more that can be expected of me.

Nitrogen I imagine is useful when commissioning LPG tanks. ie fill with nitrogen to eliminate air within the tank and thus when LPG is put in there is no chance of a flammable mixture been present.


#6 Art Montemayor

Art Montemayor

    Gold Member

  • Admin
  • 5,780 posts

Posted 14 January 2009 - 10:51 AM


Simon:

That is EXACTLY the kind of thinking and practical solutions that is done when commissioning an LPG process.

A liberal Nitrogen gas supply or generation capability is a given requirement for precommissioning and startup of LPG facilities. A gas "sniffer" for potentially explosive and flammable hydrocarbons is also an essential tool.

Keep up the clear and practical thinking and you can't go wrong.


#7 katmar

katmar

    Gold Member

  • ChE Plus Subscriber
  • 668 posts

Posted 15 January 2009 - 03:22 AM

As a way of structuring your commissioning plan you should use a "bottom up" approach, which is just the opposite of the "top down" approach you use when you design the plant. Let me explain what I mean by these terms.

When you are designing a plant you start with the high level stuff like specifying the product quality, capacity, online time etc. From there you progressively work down into more and more detail. The next step might be a block flow diagram where you have a block each for raw material preparation, reaction, product purification, packaging etc etc. Then you go into each block and define the bits of equipment inside. You progressively go to further and further levels of detail until you are defining the "nuts and bolts". This is what I call the "top down" approach.

Commissioning is exactly the opposite. You start at the fine detail and work up. Before you can start a pump you must first check that the seal is correctly aligned, the motor turns in the right direction etc etc. I like to break my plant down into "systems" where each system consists of a number of items of equipment and pipelines that can eventually be run together. When each item and pipe inside the system has been signed off then the system can be checked out and run as a whole. When each system has been signed off then you can look at running the whole plant.

You will find that competent construction contractors will have checklists for checking and commissioning all types of equipment and these can be adapted to your specific circumstances.

I agree with Art Montemayor that it is impossible to give an all-encompassing manual for commissioning, but if you tackle the job with a plan based on this "bottom up" approach you will have a fighting chance of success.

#8 ankur2061

ankur2061

    Gold Member

  • Forum Moderator
  • 2,484 posts

Posted 15 January 2009 - 03:57 AM

Simon,

To add to what ?Katmar has said, every plant or unit has its pre-commissioning, commissioning and operating manual. My experience with good technology licensors has been that they provide extensive check lists for equipment and systems, which when signed off in an ethical and transparent manner, ensure that the system is OK and ready for start-up and continuous operation.

In fact, I myself have been involved in preparation of check lists and have signed off
many of these check lists during commissioning and start-up of PET polyester plants. Incidentally my involvement has been from all sides i.e. as a client, engineering consultant and as a representative of the licensor in the half-a-dozen PET plants that I have successfully commissioned.

Unfortunately, I presently don't have a sample check list with me otherwise I would have definitely posted it on the forum to give an idea to the young and upcoming process engineers about the concept of commissioning.. However, if I do get hold of one I will definitely post it in the forum.

Regards,
Ankur.

#9 sheiko

sheiko

    Gold Member

  • ChE Plus Subscriber
  • 732 posts

Posted 15 January 2009 - 04:48 PM

It will probably be hard to find specific books about commissioning however, you may find some information in equipment books. For example, "Distillation operation" by Henry Kister has chapters 10 and 11 respectively untitled "Column assembly and preparation for commissioning" and "Column commissioning"

#10 astro

astro

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 89 posts

Posted 20 January 2009 - 11:56 PM

QUOTE (Simoncpe @ Jan 14 2009, 09:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
hi , im in my final year and currently working on my design project, (lpg storage and recovery at ambient pressure)

As part of the project i need to give some concideration to the commissioing of the plant. I was wondering if anyone knows of any texts out there that may be of any help to me.

Iv had a look in the Knovel libery but i cant find any practical solutions only definitions.

Any help would be most welcome



In the Knovel library, search for:
Loss Prevention in the Process Industries by Frank Lees.

Chapter 19 is devoted to Plant Commissioning & Inspection. When I did a search in Knovel using the keyword "commissioning", Lees came up as the 2nd hit at 99% relevancy. The chapter doesn't give you detailed answers but provides an insight quoting references where you can look for further info. Certainly it's sufficient support to draft a commissioning management plan and that's where I've personally put it to use.

I disagree with some of the advice above, you can derive useful guidance from reference sources. They do exist and they are out there if you go hunting for them. There's a big part of commissioning that you don't get the true value of from books and, apart from the experience itself, I'm referring to the people dimension. It's the commissioning team's diligence in execution and attention to detail (ATD) that results in a safe and trouble free startup. A key to that diligence/ATD comes down to the quality of leadership shown by the commissioning manager.

Where I will agree with the respondents above is that because of the detail associated with commissioning, you will struggle to find a recipe book, connect the dots tome that provides you with in depth specifics to every question you may have. That's why engineering & EPC contractors have a significant portion of intellectual property sunk into checklists of varying types to provide the inspection and test records that demonstrate that a plant has been pre-commissioned, is mechanically complete and is ready to start.

Then there's the extension of the operating manual to take a plant from its mechanically complete, "dry" state free of process fluids to its "wet" state where fluids are in the pipes and vessels and the plant is operating to some degree.

Lees breaks down commissioning in to the following phases:
Construction and pre-commissioning
A Safety precautions; preparation of utilities; gland packing; preparation for line flushing.
B Commissioning utilities; machine rotation; pressure and leak testing; vessel cleaning; line flushing; relief valve testing and re-installation
C Chemical cleaning; machine alignment; lubrication systems; machine short running tests; instrumentation checks
D Final preparations for start up

Commissioning
E Charging of feedstock, start up plant and operate
F Performance testing
G Defect rectification

These activities are documentation driven (checklists and procedures) to show that equipment is certified safe to use and is prepared in accordance with vendor / design requirements. Again there's a people dimension that overlays the above. A process plant is effectively a pile of scrap if you don't have the people to operate and maintain it, so the training of those personnel is pivotal to commissioning safety and success.

#11 Profe

Profe

    Gold Member

  • ChE Plus Subscriber
  • 316 posts

Posted 26 January 2009 - 08:00 AM

Hi Simoncpe
The next text is that I replied about Precommissionig in April 2006:

First of all, your company must have documents of Basic Engineering of the Project of which they are making the construction. If they have operation manuals, Get it¡. It is the best source available for this stage.
Depending on the scope of Basic Engineering. A stage of technical advise will have to exist during the initial starting. And within this technical advise it has shared responsibility between the owner, the constructor and the designer (basic engineering) during the stages of pre commissioning, commissioning and starting.
The designer. He will have procedures to these activities.
The Constructor (where You work), also will have own procedures.
The Proprietor, little probable.
The put in service stage, consists of several stages:
1, pre Commissioning
2, Commissioning .
3, Start up
4. Normal operation.

For the precommissioning you require of chemicals for the cleaning of the lines and equipment that therefore requires it. By ex: boilers and associate lines (probably caustic washed). For special equipment: compressors, pumps. Oil according to specifications of the manufacturer. For lines cleaning. Sweeping with inert gases, sand, water, air, or steam vaporized, depending on the type of process and the recommendations of the designer and the availability on the resources adapted to your case.
For reactors: The gaseous, solids or liquids reagents, depending on the team and the specifications of the designer, will have to be ready and available in the amounts specified plus a percentage of security.
The chemicals loading of the equipments will have to follow procedures of the designer or the constructor.

For quality control, also one will be to have chemicals and associated reagents to the required analyses of laboratory to intermediate and final products. This also can be able in the methods of analysis of the designer or in ASTM standards on products to make.

For all the activities of precommissioner, commissioner will be following by procedures: provided by the designer and the constructor in mutual agreement.

In addition, all these activities will be made under shared responsibility of the three involved parts and follow strict norms of safety for do the work free of risks .

I will hope this small aid will be of your utility.

Fausto. rolleyes.gif

PD: Simon, If you send me a valid e-mail address, I will send a pdf file about commissioning procedures.



#12 Ollie

Ollie

    Brand New Member

  • Members
  • 8 posts

Posted 29 January 2009 - 09:22 AM

Some other considerations to this interesting topic.

-depending on the location some portions of the system or the whole system might require a specific performance test to be performed and approved by the local authorities. This might be different from regular pressure tests or welds radios and be required once the construction phase has been finished (i. e. during the precom phase).

-my experience of precom / com on different processes is that one of the most difficult optimization is to properly phase the commissioning steps to avoid doing / undoing several times everything. It is exactly the same kind of problem as for a mechanical engineer to be able to prove that an assembly can be mounted / dismantled and no part will be stuck or impossible to put in place.

One classic example for commissioning "mistake" is :
1- you do a leak tightness test on a line
2- you do a fuction test of a control valve on this line
3- you realize you need to do a line flushing and/or a chemical pretreatment and you need to dismantle the control valve to do it ==> as a consequence you will require to redo step 1 (because you broke some flanges for step 3) and 2 (because you disconnected the air, power to the valve, and it might have been put back improperly) !!
If you do this several times you end up with the fun of having used all your spare gaskets and being forced to wait for an expedite delivery, while everybody is under maximal pressure to start up!

-another very important consideration is that commissioning need to be taken into account during the early phases of the project for operability and design (for instance make sure you have the proper drain / vents for commissioning, that if you put water in a system it will be strong enough to withstand the weight, that you will be able to completely remove the water without extraordinary measures... If large nitrogen use is planned for commissioning and if your nitrogen delivery is limited plan for delivery trucks and a big flange to hook to.

You must develop your commissioning procedure by systems as previously stated, and typically do the line breaking jobs as early as possible, and the instrument tests as late as possible.

You also must consider ahead how you will be able to do functional tests on safety interlocks / systems. It can be very tricky (testing the firefighting deluges is a dangerous phase, and it almost ends up with some repairs on the unit...). Another issue is to do function tests on difficult steams (HP steam, LPG).

In term of project economics the commissioning cost is to be seriously taken into consideration. I do not have any figures at hand but it seems this tends to be often underestimated. Labor, equipement rental, chemicals (for passivations, washing), wasted utilities, environmental, hundreds of gaskets...

Prepairing for a commissioning is a good intellectual effort, and it requires the input of several specialists.
Doing a commissioning is much more fun. My motto is to keep a light heart and good mood during that time !


#13 arek-malang

arek-malang

    Brand New Member

  • Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 30 January 2009 - 10:58 AM

Most (and perhaps all) of the commissioning procedures belong to the company intellectual property.

For the open literature about commissioning, you can check:

"Preparations for Initial Startup of a Process"
by Siddhartha Mukherjee
in Chemical Engineering magazine, January 2005, page 36-42.

I think this article is good enough in providing some introduction on commissioning, and I believe it will be enough for student project.

However, the real commissioning job is more complex than this article, as discussed by the other persons.

Good luck smile.gif

#14 bag

bag

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 27 posts

Posted 13 March 2009 - 01:23 AM

QUOTE (Profe @ Jan 26 2009, 09:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Simoncpe
The next text is that I replied about Precommissionig in April 2006:

First of all, your company must have documents of Basic Engineering of the Project of which they are making the construction. If they have operation manuals, Get it¡. It is the best source available for this stage.
Depending on the scope of Basic Engineering. A stage of technical advise will have to exist during the initial starting. And within this technical advise it has shared responsibility between the owner, the constructor and the designer (basic engineering) during the stages of pre commissioning, commissioning and starting.
The designer. He will have procedures to these activities.
The Constructor (where You work), also will have own procedures.
The Proprietor, little probable.
The put in service stage, consists of several stages:
1, pre Commissioning
2, Commissioning .
3, Start up
4. Normal operation.

For the precommissioning you require of chemicals for the cleaning of the lines and equipment that therefore requires it. By ex: boilers and associate lines (probably caustic washed). For special equipment: compressors, pumps. Oil according to specifications of the manufacturer. For lines cleaning. Sweeping with inert gases, sand, water, air, or steam vaporized, depending on the type of process and the recommendations of the designer and the availability on the resources adapted to your case.
For reactors: The gaseous, solids or liquids reagents, depending on the team and the specifications of the designer, will have to be ready and available in the amounts specified plus a percentage of security.
The chemicals loading of the equipments will have to follow procedures of the designer or the constructor.

For quality control, also one will be to have chemicals and associated reagents to the required analyses of laboratory to intermediate and final products. This also can be able in the methods of analysis of the designer or in ASTM standards on products to make.

For all the activities of precommissioner, commissioner will be following by procedures: provided by the designer and the constructor in mutual agreement.

In addition, all these activities will be made under shared responsibility of the three involved parts and follow strict norms of safety for do the work free of risks .

I will hope this small aid will be of your utility.

Fausto. rolleyes.gif

PD: Simon, If you send me a valid e-mail address, I will send a pdf file about commissioning procedures.


hi Profe,

I'm a fresh graduate who just started working as a process engineer. I'm about to participate in the commissioning of a ester plant later. So may I have one copy of the pdf file as well? thank you so much. my email address is bjy525@gmail.com

Await your reply

juyi


#15 Qalander (Chem)

Qalander (Chem)

    Gold Member

  • ChE Plus Subscriber
  • 829 posts

Posted 13 March 2009 - 04:29 AM

QUOTE (Profe @ Jan 26 2009, 06:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Simoncpe
The next text is that I replied about Precommissionig in April 2006:

First of all, your company must have documents of Basic Engineering of the Project of which they are making the construction. If they have operation manuals, Get it¡. It is the best source available for this stage.
Depending on the scope of Basic Engineering. A stage of technical advise will have to exist during the initial starting. And within this technical advise it has shared responsibility between the owner, the constructor and the designer (basic engineering) during the stages of pre commissioning, commissioning and starting.
The designer. He will have procedures to these activities.
The Constructor (where You work), also will have own procedures.
The Proprietor, little probable.
The put in service stage, consists of several stages:
1, pre Commissioning
2, Commissioning .
3, Start up
4. Normal operation.

For the precommissioning you require of chemicals for the cleaning of the lines and equipment that therefore requires it. By ex: boilers and associate lines (probably caustic washed). For special equipment: compressors, pumps. Oil according to specifications of the manufacturer. For lines cleaning. Sweeping with inert gases, sand, water, air, or steam vaporized, depending on the type of process and the recommendations of the designer and the availability on the resources adapted to your case.
For reactors: The gaseous, solids or liquids reagents, depending on the team and the specifications of the designer, will have to be ready and available in the amounts specified plus a percentage of security.
The chemicals loading of the equipments will have to follow procedures of the designer or the constructor.

For quality control, also one will be to have chemicals and associated reagents to the required analyses of laboratory to intermediate and final products. This also can be able in the methods of analysis of the designer or in ASTM standards on products to make.

For all the activities of precommissioner, commissioner will be following by procedures: provided by the designer and the constructor in mutual agreement.

In addition, all these activities will be made under shared responsibility of the three involved parts and follow strict norms of safety for do the work free of risks .

I will hope this small aid will be of your utility.

Fausto. rolleyes.gif

PD: Simon, If you send me a valid e-mail address, I will send a pdf file about commissioning procedures.


Dear Profe. Hello/Good Afternoon,

Please find my email address smwasialavi@gmail.com and if possible send your refferred doc related to pre-commissioning start ups etc.

I shall be obliged.

#16 bag

bag

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 27 posts

Posted 16 March 2009 - 09:18 PM

QUOTE (Profe @ Jan 26 2009, 09:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Simoncpe
The next text is that I replied about Precommissionig in April 2006:

First of all, your company must have documents of Basic Engineering of the Project of which they are making the construction. If they have operation manuals, Get it¡. It is the best source available for this stage.
Depending on the scope of Basic Engineering. A stage of technical advise will have to exist during the initial starting. And within this technical advise it has shared responsibility between the owner, the constructor and the designer (basic engineering) during the stages of pre commissioning, commissioning and starting.
The designer. He will have procedures to these activities.
The Constructor (where You work), also will have own procedures.
The Proprietor, little probable.
The put in service stage, consists of several stages:
1, pre Commissioning
2, Commissioning .
3, Start up
4. Normal operation.

For the precommissioning you require of chemicals for the cleaning of the lines and equipment that therefore requires it. By ex: boilers and associate lines (probably caustic washed). For special equipment: compressors, pumps. Oil according to specifications of the manufacturer. For lines cleaning. Sweeping with inert gases, sand, water, air, or steam vaporized, depending on the type of process and the recommendations of the designer and the availability on the resources adapted to your case.
For reactors: The gaseous, solids or liquids reagents, depending on the team and the specifications of the designer, will have to be ready and available in the amounts specified plus a percentage of security.
The chemicals loading of the equipments will have to follow procedures of the designer or the constructor.

For quality control, also one will be to have chemicals and associated reagents to the required analyses of laboratory to intermediate and final products. This also can be able in the methods of analysis of the designer or in ASTM standards on products to make.

For all the activities of precommissioner, commissioner will be following by procedures: provided by the designer and the constructor in mutual agreement.

In addition, all these activities will be made under shared responsibility of the three involved parts and follow strict norms of safety for do the work free of risks .

I will hope this small aid will be of your utility.

Fausto. rolleyes.gif

PD: Simon, If you send me a valid e-mail address, I will send a pdf file about commissioning procedures.


Dear Fausto

Thanks for sending me the excellent pdf file. I'm reading through it now. I couldn't reply your email as gmail said the address could not be resolved. So I come here and let you know I've received your email and the attachment! Thank you so much again!

Juyi

#17 Qalander (Chem)

Qalander (Chem)

    Gold Member

  • ChE Plus Subscriber
  • 829 posts

Posted 16 March 2009 - 11:07 PM

QUOTE (juyi @ Mar 17 2009, 07:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
QUOTE (Profe @ Jan 26 2009, 09:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Simoncpe
The next text is that I replied about Precommissionig in April 2006:

First of all, your company must have documents of Basic Engineering of the Project of which they are making the construction. If they have operation manuals, Get it¡. It is the best source available for this stage.
Depending on the scope of Basic Engineering. A stage of technical advise will have to exist during the initial starting. And within this technical advise it has shared responsibility between the owner, the constructor and the designer (basic engineering) during the stages of pre commissioning, commissioning and starting.
The designer. He will have procedures to these activities.
The Constructor (where You work), also will have own procedures.
The Proprietor, little probable.
The put in service stage, consists of several stages:
1, pre Commissioning
2, Commissioning .
3, Start up
4. Normal operation.

For the precommissioning you require of chemicals for the cleaning of the lines and equipment that therefore requires it. By ex: boilers and associate lines (probably caustic washed). For special equipment: compressors, pumps. Oil according to specifications of the manufacturer. For lines cleaning. Sweeping with inert gases, sand, water, air, or steam vaporized, depending on the type of process and the recommendations of the designer and the availability on the resources adapted to your case.
For reactors: The gaseous, solids or liquids reagents, depending on the team and the specifications of the designer, will have to be ready and available in the amounts specified plus a percentage of security.
The chemicals loading of the equipments will have to follow procedures of the designer or the constructor.

For quality control, also one will be to have chemicals and associated reagents to the required analyses of laboratory to intermediate and final products. This also can be able in the methods of analysis of the designer or in ASTM standards on products to make.

For all the activities of precommissioner, commissioner will be following by procedures: provided by the designer and the constructor in mutual agreement.

In addition, all these activities will be made under shared responsibility of the three involved parts and follow strict norms of safety for do the work free of risks .

I will hope this small aid will be of your utility.

Fausto. rolleyes.gif

PD: Simon, If you send me a valid e-mail address, I will send a pdf file about commissioning procedures.


Dear Fausto

Thanks for sending me the excellent pdf file. I'm reading through it now. I couldn't reply your email as gmail said the address could not be resolved. So I come here and let you know I've received your email and the attachment! Thank you so much again!

Juyi


Thanks 'Fausto' for sending the requested useful info indeed!

I noticed similar gmail response as mentioned above by Juyi.

#18 JLMONTREAL

JLMONTREAL

    Gold Member

  • Members
  • 57 posts

Posted 17 March 2009 - 07:39 AM

Dear Profe

Could you please send me your commissioning procedures for me to JLMONTREAL@GMAIL.COM?

Thanks.


QUOTE (Profe @ Jan 26 2009, 09:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi Simoncpe
If you send me a valid e-mail address, I will send a pdf file about commissioning procedures.



#19 SMMK

SMMK

    Brand New Member

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 17 March 2009 - 09:23 AM

It is recommended for LPG class of fluids to pressurise equipment with "like vapor" before filling with liquids in case the MDMT of equipment is higher than fluid boiling temperature.

Would like to hear experience of others.

Thanks


#20 Qalander (Chem)

Qalander (Chem)

    Gold Member

  • ChE Plus Subscriber
  • 829 posts

Posted 17 March 2009 - 03:11 PM

QUOTE (MANMOHAN @ Mar 17 2009, 07:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It is recommended for LPG class of fluids to pressurise equipment with "like vapor" before filling with liquids in case the MDMT of equipment is higher than fluid boiling temperature.

Would like to hear experience of others.

Thanks


Yes, through bottom openings/ piping thereby

Displacing Nitrogen or other lighter inert (almost inert) gases very very slowly

From such vessel's/ container's (upper) vapor spaces into the flare system piping

Throughout keeping the conditions 'safe' and 'under control'

employing extreme care,GC analysis of vapor space constituents (as frequently as manageable)


Hope this helps.


#21 Profe

Profe

    Gold Member

  • ChE Plus Subscriber
  • 316 posts

Posted 06 April 2009 - 09:15 AM

Hi JLMONTREAL

I sent you the file Start-up and Commissioning Procedures to your e-mail address , I hope that information will be useful for your superation.

Good luck.

#22

  • guestGuests
  • 0 posts

Posted 03 July 2009 - 01:11 AM

QUOTE (Profe @ Apr 6 2009, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hi JLMONTREAL

I sent you the file Start-up and Commissioning Procedures to your e-mail address , I hope that information will be useful for your superation.

Good luck.


Please send me these files through my email: minhthuhandball@yahoo.com!

Thank you very much!

#23 Profe

Profe

    Gold Member

  • ChE Plus Subscriber
  • 316 posts

Posted 03 July 2009 - 07:54 AM

Hi Minhthu

I sent you the file in pdf format that you requested me.

Please review your e-mail, and confirm me if you recived that.

Godd luck. rolleyes.gif

#24 sasirkumar

sasirkumar

    Brand New Member

  • Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 19 September 2009 - 09:45 PM

Hi Fausto,

I am a chem Engineer working in a new plant commissioning.I need the pdf file related to pre-commissioning commissioning procedure and start up (detailing pressure test,leak test,hydrotest,mech cleaning,flushiing,blowing etc) for petrochemical plants

My email id - rnsasikumar2@yahoo.com

thx in advance
Sasikumar

#25 iceman

iceman

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 11 posts

Posted 20 September 2009 - 12:18 PM

regarding the drying of equipment you would start by opening all low points (drain lines) to get rid of any water. Then you should purge with an inert gas (usually Nitrogen). Test purging gas at highest points (vents) until completely dry.

For an LPG bullet you should use gas detector to get an LEL readings on the meter.

For a distillation column it is much more involved but you carryouy the following:
1) Starting of Reboiler circulation(usually an oil).
2) Starting of Heater for heating Reboiler circulation oil.
3) Starting of feed into column.
4) Starting of FinFan coolers for Reflux return to Tower.
5) This would continue whilst Operators are keeping eyes on all parameters without any product withdrawl as these would out of SPEC.
6) As soon as operations is stable and all top and bottom products are according to SPEC you would divert them to their respective destinations. For example in case of Light hydrcarbons tower (Debutanizer) your Top product would be LPG and your bottom product C5+ (including some butanes).

But it must be remembered that each of the Auxillary equipment would have its own start-up procedure such as the Heaters.

I hope this would be of some help to you. These things are learned from hands on experience and you will find out later that no two start-ups are the same for the same Tower!
regards
iceman

PS
I would try to post to you (about a weeks time approx) a detailed start-up of an actual Tower not to be used as Bible for starting Towers of that type but as a guideline for what is involved.






I thought someone would say that , i aggree with what you are saying 100%.

However been a student i have no pratical experience so depend upon "book" learning and when 25% of your design project relys on it , what do you do?

I have obviosly concidered it from a pratical point of view i was just hoping to find a few gereral rules of thumb.

I know every project is different but is there a gerneral proccedure for say starting up a distilation column or leak testing an lpg tank. How do you remove water/moisture from the system after contruction ?

I am not trying to get people to write my project but when you have only three years of study and NO experience you have to start somewhere.






Similar Topics